Dietitians Review: Herbalife

Vanessa: 0:15

wellness back this week? We areba life. So

Emily: 0:21

So,

Vanessa: 0:22

fun one.

Emily: 0:24

Yeah, I'm really excited. Like I think this one's a lot more well known. Last week we did F Factor, which was crazy, but I feel like this one is way more prevalent and you probably even know someone, or at least someone's like in your neighborhood that is peddling this stuff. So I'm really, I'm excited. We haven't done it MLM yet, really, I don't think.

Vanessa: 0:43

Yeah, I don't think so either. I also, I was thinking about this on my drive today. It seems like Herbalife was, Really prevalent. And then it seemed like they died. And I think that's when like the whole FTC thing happened. Which I'm sure we'll talk about later, but it seems like they're like on the rise again, which I don't know if they were ever necessarily on the fault. I mean, they're in like 90 countries. It's a huge company, but it did seem like they maybe died out for a minute.

Emily: 1:14

Yeah, I feel like I stopped hearing about it for a little bit too, but I don't know if that's just like me setting good boundaries on social media and like deleting people who are pedaling it or what

Vanessa: 1:25

Well, that's something really interesting about Herbalife too, is I don't know exactly how it was before, but now they kind of hide their storefronts being Herbalife. Like it's always the, it's always something nutrition, so. Like by me, it might be, you know, a city and then Nutrition or Something nutrition. That's always the name, but the name has, it does not have Herbalife in it. They typically don't advertise Herbalife on the outside of these stores, so it'll advertise like Juice, smoothies, shakes, and you're like, Oh, cool. I'm gonna like go into this juice place and grab a juice, and then you walk in and bam, it's Herbal Life,

Emily: 2:10

You're just like shocked. And Herbalife, like at the core, for those of you who might not know, it's an mlm, a multilevel marketing scheme I think we could call them. It's a pyramid scheme and. Basically like on the website it talks all about how you can start your own business, build your own business with Herbalife Nutrition. It says it's one of the world's leading direct sales brands. And it's basically just powders and supplements and that's the bulk of Herbalife, which I think is the bulk of a lot of diets. But the way that they do this and the way that they market their stuff is a little bit different. And like Vanessa said, they have these storefronts. I don't know if there's any by me. I. Think so, but I know they're like all over Michigan for sure, and it's very like low key and it does not talk about Herbalife being actually involved at all yet. They're using all of their supplements.

Vanessa: 3:03

I mean, you realize that it's Herbalife once you get inside the store, because typically there is some kind of like Herbalife messaging. I mean, it's like all their sheets and things like that once you get inside, but on the outside of the building, you can't tell Which is really frustrating because, well, first of all, I think they're doing this for a reason because they are an MLM in, I think it was 2017. The FTC was like, Whoa, what's going on with Herba life? This is multi-level marketing scheme. And they actually ended up sending checks to nearly 350,000 people who lost money trying to run Herbalife businesses. So there was a huge settlement. It was 200 million. So they really took advantage of a lot of people more, I mean even past like the nutrition stuff and kind of some insidious messages there. I mean, this like financially ruined some people.

Emily: 4:01

Yeah, totally. It's honestly crazy the world of pyramid schemes and I wish we could have like some kind of guest on here that like, knows a lot about them to educate on why they're just so harmful for health in many different ways. but. We'll just talk about the nutrition aspect of Herbalife instead today.

Vanessa: 4:19

Yeah, I, I mean, as all of those MLMs, you know, they promise that you can make all this money, and I believe I, I read something and I think most people were bringing in like maybe$200 a month.

Emily: 4:34

Oh yeah, totally. And I think that these, these storefronts make it really easy for them to buy and use product. And that's kind of like how these other people are making their money.

Vanessa: 4:43

Yeah, so anyway, so they kind of, you know, disguise a little bit. You don't realize it's Herbalife until you get in there. And so you're seeing on the outside of this building whatever nutrition, and usually it says juice smoothie shakes. And for me, so I fell for this. I fell for this. And I saw this place and it was, I, for, I, I'm not gonna say the name and I don't even remember the name, but it was something, Nutrition had all this, you know, juice. I was like, Wow, juice sounds great. Today. I was on my lunch break. I was in the city of Oxford. You can do what you may into this place. And I'm expecting juice, right? Like I want fruits and veggies, juice stuff. and that is not what Herbalife is. It is powders. Like there is no real food in the building.

Emily: 5:36

Definitely, and all of the flavors are like whack, right? It's like cookies and cream or like cotton candy. Like all this, just like bizarre. Just truly bizarre.

Vanessa: 5:46

Well, and I, something that I think is really interesting about it too is, you know, diet culture typically is very, very much like they go against, like you can't have any processed foods, processed foods, And the thing with this is like, There is nothing wrong with some processed foods. The, This is like ultra, ultra, ultra processed, like.

Emily: 6:10

Yeah, I find this so hilarious. Like honestly, we need a whole episode about processed foods because it's so strange how it's just absolutely demonized if it's like a frozen dinner yet, like a literal powder of ground up substances that we don't even really know what's in there is like celebrated.

Vanessa: 6:29

Yeah, and we don't know what's in there. And I mean, there has been some, I, I pulled a study earlier today. Hold on, I gotta find it. It's in my tabs here somewhere. I couldn't actually read the whole study cause I had to pay for it. And school kids, you can always have access to those journals while you're

Emily: 6:49

Truly.

Vanessa: 6:50

God, but it was related to Herbalife products and liver failure, like people.

Emily: 6:56

Oh yeah.

Vanessa: 6:58

So, I mean, this is really serious. I mean, in the supplement market, these things are not regulated. They can be putting whatever they want in there and making whatever claims they want. And so that is really, really important. I personally would not feel comfortable. Drinking something like this personally you know, if you really like the taste, that's fine, but also proceed with caution because we don't really know what's in there. And I mean, from what I've come across, Herbalife is not very transparent with their ingredients. It's very, very hard to find any kind of ingredient list.

Emily: 7:37

Yeah, honestly, it's, it's kind of wild. And also the fact that you don't have to like have a full storefront to offer Herbalife. Like you can just sell it from your house if you want. You know, just everybody has someone from high school that has gone into the pyramid scheme. Industry, I'll say. And you know, you can just put this on your Facebook and be like, Hey, who wants to lose 10 pounds? And then like, everybody comments like me, and then they're like, Okay, take this, you know, supplement or whatever. So I think it's good for us to do kind of a deep dive into like, what. It really is. And they have a section and it's called Core Nutrition. And that's basically like their trio of core products that they think are gonna just kickstart your healthy eating habits. And I think the words they use is help you thrive from within. Very specific. These are also generalized And the first thing is a protein powder meal replacement. And it's funny that you said Vanessa was hard to find the information. Cause I wrote GD Impossible to find actual label. It's literally so hard. We know it's soy protein based. They do talk about how protein is an essential building block for many cell components in the body. It's vital to a healthy diet. It helps to satisfy you, builds muscle, tissues, provides energies like we agree with all of that. Protein is important and it's, it's not. Bullshit that they're peddling. It's, it's a protein powder. Who knows what else is in it because it's so hard to freaking find out. But it, it, it's a protein powder, right? Maybe there might be another protein powder. I, I, I use protein powder. I like protein powder. I think there's a lot of sneaky things in them even that we might not even realize. Like I had one that had sugar alcohols in it and I didn't even really realize for like a week that I was using it. And I was not really feeling that I'd rather have one with like a few grams of real sugar. But anyways, it's just like there's a lot of protein powders on the market that might be a little more targeted and a little better and more regulated than these ones.

Vanessa: 9:31

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I, I mean even finding like simple macros about their products is really hard, so that's really concerning to me. I did find through a third party, so. This was an article about Herbalife. I found that it said their shakes were only 170 calories, their meal replacement.

Emily: 9:53

yes. And there's supposed to be a whole meal. What the hell? That's not happening. That's not happening. So, so much of like even one article that I saw on their website was like, Oh, don't worry if you stop losing weight, just start eating two shakes for your meals a day. It's like, that is so bad. Like no one can subsist on 300 calories a day. Like that's not. That's horrifying. So I would say this is really up there with like the worst, I guess, diet. I don't know how many people strictly follow, like just these shakes and that's it. But it's definitely like one of the worst that we've talked about for sure. Like effects on your health wise.

Vanessa: 10:28

Oh yeah, I, I'm very surprised that I, I mean, I think. Just so unsustainable that a lot of people probably aren't following this to a T anyhow. But I think that if people were, this could potentially be very, very, very dangerous. Like all of factors, side effects and more

Emily: 10:47

And it's, It's interesting you mentioned that because, so it's a trio of products, right? It's the protein powder, it's a multivitamin, and then it's a cell activator. The multivitamin, there's nothing to really report. It kind of just seems like your average multivitamin, but. Number three is a cell activator with alpha lipoic acid. They talk about how it increases antioxidant activity in the cells, helps reduce free radicals and fight aging. They're assuming that, you know, oxidative stress is what you're experiencing and that it's definitely gonna help. It could help if you are experiencing oxidative stress. But you get antioxidants from a lot of foods, right? It can be unnecessary. You know, it's just like one of those generalizations that you kind of have to watch for. Like, it might help some people with those issues, but it just depends what the root causes for you. You know, there's actually some studies that they use this supplement for diabetic nerve pain. Not this one in particular, but Alpha poke acid. And there's not very many studies that show some sort of contraindication in using it, but you can have adverse effects of this supplement. And you should consult with a doctor before taking it. If you have liver disease, if you consume large amounts of alcohol, if you're diabetic because the supplement is known to lower blood sugar, a thyroid disorder or a th thiamin deficiency, like these are a lot of conditions. On the website when they're talking about this, they're like, Everybody needs this cell activator. Like, you know, this is just gonna help with your nutrient absorption process. This is awesome. Like, it doesn't have any of those little messages underneath saying that like, Hey, if you have these pretty, fairly common issues, you know, we have a lot of people with diabetes and that are probably engaging with this supplement in this company. And it doesn't have any warnings about that at all.

Vanessa: 12:32

Well, and they don't have any nutrition staff. They will say that you get one on one nutrition support, but you don't have to be, and I don't think anyone is a nutrition professional that promotes these products. So they have these people peddling these products that they're saying, Oh, you're gonna have one on one nutrition support by trained. People both trained by them, but not trained in the sense that we consider trained in region, which we know is extremely dangerous. And I think that people just think like, Oh, it's just food. It's not that big of a deal. And it is a big deal, especially when we're talking things like supplements.

Emily: 13:13

Yeah, and to your point, there's a lot of articles on the website and it talks about things like avoiding unhealthy snacks you know, random sort of nutrition advice, and they're written by personal trainers. And that's like, it's just inappropriate. And. Like they don't have the full picture of obviously medical, nutrition, therapy and nutrition as a whole, but also they don't have that harm reduction strategy that ideally dieticians have where it's like, Oh, okay, you know, we don't tell people don't eat this food. Like that's can be harmful to your relationship with food. It can promote disordered eating, whatever. But yeah, a lot of them mar personal trainers. There's a couple articles that have dieticians writing them and they look like trash. I don't know what dietician wants to put their name on these, but whatever.

Vanessa: 13:54

Wow. They do have dieticians onboard.

Emily: 13:57

just, just one article was written by somebody, so I don't know. Susan Bowerman. Let us know what you're thinking, cause I know what is going on for you.

Vanessa: 14:08

Know how much money they paid you.

Emily: 14:10

Yeah. Susan hit us up.

Vanessa: 14:12

I wanted to touch on the names of some of the supplements too, which I'm sure you had else as well that are just pretty damaging in general is definitely going to be like hurting people's relationship with food. One of their supplements is called Snack Defense.

Emily: 14:33

I didn't see this one. All I, I was just on total control was where I saw I got tripped up. What's snack defense?

Vanessa: 14:42

It claims to support carbohydrate metabolism. And that also is like, who's to say your snack is a carb? I?

Emily: 14:51

Oh my God, yes. What a

Vanessa: 14:53

And then also demonizing carbs, like saying that's bad. They have a cell, you. Supplement that is electrolytes. It's like, just why these names? It's.

Emily: 15:05

So bad. Mm-hmm. I have the. Mm-hmm. The one that I was really interested in was the total control tablet, like I said, because it, it makes me really sad, like, because I just think about how many clients I have that like, feel like without calorie counting or dieting or whatever they experience, loss of control like in their whole lives. And we're just so used to kind of having that control when it comes to food, when we're in a dieting head space. And, you know, the kind. Unhealthy desire and also unrealistic to constantly control the body at every step. Anyways, I'll get off my soapbox quickly now. But these tablets have 82 milligrams of caffeine in them, and that's basically like what the tablets are. And they talk about how it boost metabolism quickly, stimulates metabolism, increases alertness, provides an energetic sensation. That was kind of like some of the key benefits. It's really bizarre because like instead of buying these supplements, you could literally just have a cup of coffee. Like, it's so strange because it's like, why are these mark, Like a cup of coffee is between 80 to a hundred milligrams of caffeine typically, and. It's like these pills are literally just that, except that you're intaking it all at once in one pill, Jesus, instead of like a cup of coffee. Not to mention that it's like way less enjoyable, obviously, to be having like this pill rather than a cup of coffee. And also less antioxidants too because coffee has those. Yes, there are benefits to coffee and it was just so upsetting to see that.

Vanessa: 16:42

Yeah. Here's the thing too. So they're promoting, like they're saying on their website. Herbalife nutrition philosophy is based on three key pillars, balanced, nutrition, and active lifestyle, and a personalized program. Here's the problem that I have with that. They, they are not working with any real foods. Like this program is not sustainable in any way because it's not teaching you how to eat. It's teaching you to replace your meals. But what happens when you have to go back to eating real food because you don't wanna have a shake that's 170 calories for your meal anymore? Then what Then. What happens? What do you do? Nobody taught you where to go. You have to keep drinking their shakes. That's the only way to stay on that diet.

Emily: 17:33

Absolutely. And even like, and that's what's crazy when I see that I'm like, these total controlled tablets, I'm like, there's just no need for these. Like you can literally get caffeine elsewhere. It's so bizarre. And there was a lot of like powdered t supplements, like, and they talk about how, you know, this can increase antioxidant function, which can increase cellular function and it's. Yeah, that's true, but like why wouldn't you just drink tea? Like it's so much better. It's way more to the source. It's not quote unquote processed, like the only time when I'm gonna use that in a derogatory way, but like it's not processed down. It's way more and it's raw form and it's easier for you to absorb rather than them like, you know, basically. Distilling it into this powder that they can sell. When this is a product that already exists, it just doesn't have this wild marketing team behind it. And the fact that too, these are all weight loss focused when, you know, everybody knows how I feel about intentional weight loss and how that process goes. But. Regardless. Even if you were Proin intentional weight loss, it's like saying that these products can immediately help you lose weight, and it's just not true. Like it's one piece of the puzzle. Like even if you were going to lose weight, this alone would not do it. And that's why like even with F Factor too, it's just so top of mind. So we just talked about it. It's like everything is moving together. Like yeah, they say it's about the fiber, but really they're like, Well, you've gotta also, You know, calorie restrict and exercise too. It's like, wait, like that's not what you say though in your other claims. It's really confusing and they love to like kind of put the onus back on the diet

Vanessa: 19:11

Well

Emily: 19:11

to why it fails.

Vanessa: 19:12

F Factor famously doesn't want you to work out and wants you to drink more

Emily: 19:17

Oh yeah. Right. They love when you like booze it up every day.

Vanessa: 19:20

I thought this was really interesting too. So their Formula one, one shake is actually really, really high in sugar. Fructose is the main ingredient.

Emily: 19:30

Oh wow.

Vanessa: 19:32

So it's like everyone out here, like people won't eat fruit, but they'll go, you know, they'll say, Oh my god, you know, fruit is too high in sugar. I can't have it. But they'll go drink a shake like this, and it's literally like ultra processed high in sugar bullshit.

Emily: 19:53

And let me tell you also too were you seeing the fricking prices like 30? Okay. I wanna really, I really need us to get into the fat release supplement cuz that's something that I was. Absolutely horrified by, and it costs$58 for 30 sticks, like that's over a do. That's almost$2 of serving. Like that is insane for a powder. What's in it?

Vanessa: 20:20

Mm.

Emily: 20:22

So basically they talk about how this fat release supplement is especially formulated with limine, which is a patented cactus fiber ingredient developed, derived from prickly pair. So they say that when you ingest it with foods containing fats, limine forms a fat fiber complex with a portion of the fats and the food. And this complex cannot be digested or absorbed, so it's naturally eliminated from the body. So they're saying that. The fat basically binds to the fiber, then it's excreted, and they say this reduces a portion of fat calories from being absorbed when taken with a meal containing fats, and it promotes a feeling of fullness. Okay, so basically they're saying that it, Hold on, wait, let me say that. So another thing that I find hilarious about this, so, and I'm gonna go into it cause I definitely dove deep on this one cause I'm like, what is this supplement? But I love how also they say, Oh don't worry not formulated with caffeine stimulants or metabolic enhancers that alter the healthy body's normal metabolism. It's like, but you're literally trying to sell me a caffeine pill on the other hand, like it's literally right above that. So like, it's hilarious cuz they like immediately contradict themselves on their website.

Vanessa: 21:31

Yeah.

Emily: 21:32

But basically the risks with this supplement is that while the fat blocker is binding and obstructing the fat, it could also be preventing absorption of nutrients. It works by manipulating the body's natural process. There's always risks. And the ultimate effectiveness of fat blockers hasn't been proven.

Vanessa: 21:48

I just hear.

Emily: 21:49

Yeah, I know. I was just thinking, I'm like, is this like coming out in people's poop like I think it is. So basically they've, the research says that it might assist with the beginning of weight loss, but it only works for short term periods. And those that have preexisting conditions should avoid flap fat blockers completely. And that all others should consider that if it's not taken correctly, there could be severe side effects over time. I mean, Ultimately, like we need fat in our diets. And you of course, like there could be people who are eating too much. You might be having digestive issues from it, whatever. But the answer is not to take a fat blocker. The answer is to like assess your meals, see how they're not giving you sat satiety. So you need, feel like you need so much fat at every meal. You know there there's a lot of things that we can talk about that don't include this, and the fact that it's just so full of risk really is upsetting.

Vanessa: 22:43

Well, and I think it's upsetting. This company to me, is upsetting in so many ways because. They're, I feel like they're hurting so many people. It's like hurting the people that believe in these products and then decide they want to sell them. They wanna try to make a living off of this. I think it's hurting the people that are consuming these products. And then everyone. Ends up kind of being a victim. So I, I mean, if someone is promoting these products and thinks they're great, because that's the story that they're being told you kind of have like a little bit of empathy and have to be like, Oh my, like you're being taken advantage of. And it's, it's really hard to watch, like from all sides. And I. Just truly think that these products should not be consumed. Not only for you know, actually like having these weird names, not being nutritionally adequate in a lot of ways, but also just for the fact of we don't know what exactly is in them. And we do know what is in them is like a lot of weird ingredients.

Emily: 23:54

Totally. Or just a complete waste of your money. And what really upsets me the most too about this, of course, obviously the like fast tracked, disordered eating that this, this type of language gives you. But the fact that like, Even if some of these benefits are true, like this is a fat blocker, right? Like this is possible, or caffeine can increase your metabolism. Like all these things could be true, but they're just not sharing the other side of the story. Like they're just not sharing the risks associated with it. The fact that you might not absorb certain vitamins and nutrients because you don't have fat in your food, like they're not sharing all of those things and they. Releasing these substances to the general public, like, go wild, everybody. And that's really so, so harmful and very morally suspect, I would say.

Vanessa: 24:44

Yeah. I mean they, they're preying on people's insecurities at the end of the day. They know that and. They're also praying on the fact that they know people are looking for a quick fix. They're looking to take a pill, they're looking to drink a shake, rather than, you know, having to change something in their lifestyle or adopt a different way of eating. They, they wanna be able to do that easy thing because it, it's easy. Give me this, this is what I'm gonna do. It's very black and white. And they know that they're praying on it and they're making a lot of money doing.

Emily: 25:18

Totally. And I can't tell you how many people I start working with that are like, So yeah, intuitive is a lot harder. And I'm like, Yeah, it's a lot easier to just listen to these rules and that are kind of arbitrary and it's like, Oh, eat this, shake, eat that, and then you're done. Like it's a lot easier to take these paths. So I think it's. It's common for people to do it when they do feel like, you know, they're at their wits end or they need some type of control back in their life via their body. I think it's really common, but it's just sad because it never actually provides that desired results in very rare cases and can come with a lot of side effects. As we've mentioned, once or twice

Vanessa: 25:58

Yeah, like I said, how do you. Actually if, if you, if your goal is weight loss, you want to lose weight, how do you actually create sustainable weight loss with not knowing what foods to eat? Unless you just don't eat any foods, which you.

Emily: 26:15

Right, and, and that's the problem. And that's why we see that this pursuit of weight loss is so unattainable because it's just so, it's so restrictive and we're hurting our bodies so much in the process. And it's a whole other conversation that we do have in the BMI episode, but like the weight cycling is also really harmful. So getting on and off a diet can be very, Challenging for your body to deal with the constant, Lose 20 pounds, gain 30 pounds, lose 50 pounds, gain 40 pounds. I mean, it's, it's a roller coaster ride that your metabolism does not wanna be on. So yeah, basically we do not like Herbalife. And also this is only the tip of the iceberg. Like they have hair, skin products, acne solutions. It really is just like a, like prey on your insecurities company. I like that word that you used a lot, Vanessa.

Vanessa: 27:05

Well, and it's just really upsetting to me. Cause honestly, like I, I do not want to be on here always just like bitching about products and how bad they

Emily: 27:18

Yeah.

Vanessa: 27:19

I don't.

Emily: 27:19

You feel bad about that? I, I, I enjoy being on here and bitching about them, but

Vanessa: 27:25

I'm, I'm not, I don't wanna tear anything down. I'm not trying, we are not trying to tear anyone down or like ruin anyone's business or anything like that. It's because we're concerned for people. Like it comes out of a legitimate place of concern. It's not just because like, Oh, I don't really like how these look. It's like these are hurting people. Like, and that's so real and it's, I just feel like people don't realize like how insidious this all is.

Emily: 27:58

A hundred percent. I think that, you know, we love talking shit, but we love talking shit for a reason. And there's a lot of reasons with Herbalife to be questioning, to be curious about the data, curious about the side effects. Yeah, it's rough.

Vanessa: 28:16

As as an attempt to, I was, Emily, I was searching my ass off to find something positive about this company. Cause like, you know what, If I can say one positive thing about them, that would really be great for me. And I did find that Herbalife is committed to bring hunger to zero, which is,

Emily: 28:36

I did see, I saw that too.

Vanessa: 28:39

Which is like interesting because it's also like these meal replacement shakes are making people hungry.

Emily: 28:46

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's kind of ironic. Yes, I have seen their global initiative focused on providing nutrition aid and education to communities around the world, but even then it's like, what education is that? I'm scared.

Vanessa: 28:58

yeah, yeah. But I mean, I guess like at least third. They're trying to end hunger I dunno. They're acting like they're trying to do something good. At least it's just, it's honestly, I'm very riled up right now because I'm, I'm upset so.

Emily: 29:16

upset. You tried to be nice, and I say don't try, I say just go with the facts that we have and.

Vanessa: 29:24

Well, here's the upsetting thing though, Emily, is because they have sold this to common people that believe in it, and those people have created storefronts where they sell these products that this company has pushed to them, and that's now their livelihood.

Emily: 29:42

Yeah, it's, it's really dangerous and that is definitely very sad. And you know, if you stop going to the shops, that that is sad for those individual people and they are truly the victim. So I hope that, I mean, they've already gotten 200 million, so I hope that they continue to get even more money, as hopefully people realize all of the potentially harmful impacts of this company.

Vanessa: 30:07

Yes. So that is all we have for you today. On Herbalife. If you have any Herbalife experiences, like with all of the things we talk about, we'd love to hear about your experiences. So please let us know. You can message us on Instagram, you can send us an email, whatever way feels best for you to contact us, and maybe next week we will have a super positive episode. Who knows?

Emily: 30:31

Yeah, who knows? We might change it up a little bit, but for now, we'll, we're just continuing to talk shit.

Vanessa: 30:36

We have to find a product we like, and then maybe we, that product can sponsor us also,

Emily: 30:42

Oh yeah, totally. Yeah. If anybody knows like the opposite of Herbalife, we're interested.

Vanessa: 30:47

and like you guys know that like money isn't gonna sway us. Like we're not gonna let pay us and then say they're great. Like they.

Emily: 30:55

nobody pays us right now. So like if it's basically yeah,

Vanessa: 31:01

Yeah. So with that, we'll see you next week.

Emily: 31:05

see you next time.