Macro series: Fat

Emily: 0:00

Hey 'Ness.

Vanessa: 0:00

Hey, Em

Emily: 0:01

So today we're going to talk all about fat and this is probably my personal favorite micronutrient next to protein, probably. So I'm really excited to talk about this one.

Vanessa: 0:20

So welcome to wellness Smiths and our last episode of our macronutrients series. So we are going to be talking all about fat today. And I think that this episode there's a little bit more to talk about with fat versus protein. Cause like we mentioned, go back and listen to the protein episode if you haven't already. But like we mentioned with the protein there, wasn't a lot of. Really myths. Like protein has always been on top fat is kind of back on top now, but hasn't really been on wasn't on top for a while and it's always kind of to you.

Emily: 1:00

Yeah. Especially to a lot of the information that we covered in the protein and the carb episode, we'd kind of already talked about in a lot of different episodes, but aside from the KIDO episode where yeah, we touch on fat, but mostly just to like talk shit. So like I'm ready to say some like, really nice things about eating fat today.

Vanessa: 1:20

Yes. Yes, because you want to eat fat. You just don't want to eat off.

Emily: 1:27

If that's not like everything summed up. Like, could we literally just say, like, we just don't want you to all have the same thing and then like, you'll probably be super healthy. That's like really all we need to tell people.

Vanessa: 1:39

And I think historically the reason fat kind of came out the chopping block is because it's high calories, a little bit of fat has a lot of calories in it. So people. kind of got afraid of that and thought, oh, if we can cut that out, then, you know, Well cut calories and it'll be better. Well, fat also contributes to satiety and feeling nice and full. So it's really an important part of your diet.

Emily: 2:11

So if we're thinking about it in comparison to our other two macronutrients carbs and protein have four calories per gram and fat has nine calories per gram. So not shockingly, it's a lot denser than those other foods. And definitely going to get into kind of the history of the demonization of fat a little bit later in our episode, but can you tell us, like, what is fat and why do we need to do.

Vanessa: 2:35

Yeah. absolutely. So we have different kinds of fats and some of the fats we want to limit, and the other ones are, you know, what we want to fill the majority of our fat calories with. So the ones that we want to live. And most people can probably guess this. I hope that you're yelling at, in your car, it's saturated fats. So you can think, of these as the fats that churn solid at room temperature. They contribute to your LDL cholesterol, which is your bad cholesterol. And it lowers your HDL cholesterol, which is your good cholesterol and increases triglycerides. So that is all. Not good things, especially if you are a heart patient or you have history of heart disease in your family. So some examples of saturated fats would be things like butter, coconut oil, Palm oil, Palm kernel oil anything I'm missing there, that'd be like a big one.

Emily: 3:35

think, I think you've pretty much covered it.

Vanessa: 3:37

So there's been a little bit of controversy over saturated fats in more recent years. I'm wondering if it actually, you know, leads to heart disease and things like that. So, some studies have found that saturated fat. Not a risk of heart disease. And then others are still finding that saturated fat is associated with increase for stroke, cardiovascular disease and coronary heart disease. So there is, you know, there, there probably needs more studies to come out. But I think it's pretty safe to say. Since we do know that it's contributing the bad cholesterol, that it probably is contributing to an increased risk of, you know, stroke and cardiovascular. So it is probably something we should limit in our diet. Oh, another great thing to think of when you think of saturated fat is bacon. So when you're cooking bacon and the bacon Greeks grease hardens, that is all saturated fat. And you know that because it gets hard.

Emily: 4:45

Yeah, I think that there's a lot

Vanessa: 4:48

Yeah.

Emily: 4:49

This kind of diet culture tendency that we started to really vilify all animal products, because there are saturated fats and things like bacon, as you mentioned and butter, obviously, as you mentioned too. And like, I'm not trying to do any anti vegan propaganda, but I feel like nobody knows about coconut oil and the true saturated fat contents of coconut in general.

Vanessa: 5:15

And I feel like a couple years ago, like even when we were in college, people were like eating coconut oil by the spoon. Like coconut oil was all liquor.

Emily: 5:25

oh yeah. I remember like went to college with us, you'll definitely remember this. I remember like, One of our classmates brought in a can of coconut milk and was like, look at this, like, there's so much saturated fat in this guys. Like even we were like, wow, really? Like we learned about it in class. like, oh my God, like, this is really intense. There's so much saturated fat, but yet, like are just eating it by the spoonful for weight loss, supposedly.

Vanessa: 5:52

Hmm.

Emily: 5:52

is definitely some. Evidence towards medium chain triglycerides, MTC, MCT oils the coconut oil, but usually it's like a clarified and there it's taken as a sub when there's a whole lot of research behind that. But

Vanessa: 6:06

But the

Emily: 6:07

like so compelling to where like, okay, all these extra calories for this sort of weight loss goal was really even supported. And so

Vanessa: 6:14

And,

Emily: 6:14

so going back to kind of the animal product to vilifying train butter

Vanessa: 6:20

but

Emily: 6:21

saturated fat. Okay. Which is like a pretty high number.

Vanessa: 6:24

yeah.

Emily: 6:25

oil is 90% saturated fat. So that's like a lot more than butter. The same people that are like frying, everything in coconut oil are telling you about how butter and animal fats are going to clog your arteries. So I just always find that really interesting.

Vanessa: 6:42

Yeah, that is some anti vegan propaganda. I can't believe that even came out here.

Emily: 6:47

I know someone's going to pull my card, but you know what, honestly, you, you know, I'm always talking about coconut because I eat a lot of coconut as a vegan. And so like in college I would be like, oh, like, I don't want to eat coconut yogurt or something like that. And then that's what always be teasing me, but I did a lot of coconut already. So I'm like, I want to be, you know, mindful. I'd rather have something that like milk-based basically.

Vanessa: 7:10

Yeah. I used to get really annoyed at Emily in college because she would be very cognizant of that. And I was like, okay, like, I understand I was more on the you know, saturated fats aren't create all created equal, and I still think that's true. But at the same time, I don't think you should be like eating coconut oil for every meal. Cause that's just obscene.

Emily: 7:31

There was definitely a time when everybody was putting spoonfuls in their smoothie. And the thing is

Vanessa: 7:35

Yeah.

Emily: 7:36

one more like Vanessa was talking about the connection with saturated fats to LDL cholesterol. And there's so many reasons, even just aside from saturated fats, that you could be having high LDL or quote unquote, bad cholesterol. You know, your liver is responsible for removing LDL cholesterol. So if you have a sluggish liver that could impact you, stress alcohol, smoking, all those things negatively impact your cholesterol. I just think it's so interesting because you don't really see people being vilified for having a glass of wine. Like they would for eating like a bowl of buttery creamy, saturated, fat laid in pasta, even though the correlation that we have for alcohol is way and stress in general. Is way clearer that it doesn't support good heart health. So I just always find that so interesting. How something that does have a crane grain of truth in it that saturated fats can increase your cholesterol. We'll still be villainized by diet culture, way more, just because of what it is at the end of the day, which is fat.

Vanessa: 8:38

And coconut oil, a lot of people will desire to use it in baking or something like that. And that is fine to do again. We're not telling you to not eat coconut oil. We're just telling you probably don't put like Gabs of it in your coffee because you don't need that much.

Emily: 8:55

Yeah, for sure. And maybe like, for me personally, it, it all goes back to kind of your own preferences, like a canola oil or vegetable oil, something like that is as satisfying to me in a baked. Good. so sometimes I'm like, okay, I'd rather just like throw some of that in here instead of coconut, coconut, as I know that I already get a lot of that in my diet, through like vegan cheeses or ice creams or all that kind of. And Vanessa going back to what you had mentioned about smoke points. I think this is another thing that people don't really know about and sense completely entrenched in fat because it has to do with oils, which are huge sources of fats. I think that people would really benefit from hearing some info on smoke points to.

Vanessa: 9:38

Yeah. So this is a really interesting topic because this is an area where the recommendations have changed more recently. So we used to worry about cooking oils past their smoke point, because it was believed that would cause a release and harmful free radicals. So free radicals are unstable molecules that can cause damage to your body. So we want to avoid them where we can. So, for example, it was not recommended to do high heat cooking with olive oil. So olive oil has a moderate smoke point around 350 to 400 degrees while avocado oil has a smoke point of around five 20. So it was considered to be a safer option for high heat cooking with avocado oil versus olive oil. Research has actually come out in more recent years showing us that regardless of olive oils, moderate smoke point, it's actually still a really great option for high heat cooking. So these studies found that. Even when olive oil was heated past its smoke point, it's still was staying very stable, so it was not breaking down. Um, and so it was actually really good for high heat cooking and it's believed that olive oil stability is due to its high content of mono unsaturated, fats and antioxidants. So for years I was using only avocado oil for high heat cooking, but. It's actually perfectly safe and even beneficial to cook with olive oil. So cook away with that olive oil, although I still love avocado oil as well. It's also great for your health. So those two are the main oils that I have in my case.

Emily: 11:23

yeah, no avocado oil is a great one. I think you turned me on to that initially. And I still use it all the time.

Vanessa: 11:29

I have coconut oil, but full disclosure. I have coconut oil to use in the bath. So I'm not, I'm actually ingesting it. It is under my bath cabinet for like times that have gotten really dry skin. And I just put a little bit in my bathtub and then create like a huge hazard where my husband might like slip in the tub when he's trying to take a shower.

Emily: 11:53

Oh, yeah. I can't even tell you how many times my mom was like cursing my name and the shower as I would like use all these coconut oil, sugar scrubs that I would make growing up.

Vanessa: 12:05

Yeah. Yeah. it can be it can be a little dicey cause it just kind of like creates like that sheen on your bathtub too. And it's kind of hard to get off. Because obviously it's fat. So it repels the water.

Emily: 12:18

Yeah. And it's, I don't really think it's good for your drains either since like,

Vanessa: 12:22

Oh yeah.

Emily: 12:23

oil down your drain. So then there's that whole, the drama,

Vanessa: 12:26

Yeah.

Emily: 12:28

so good luck guys.

Vanessa: 12:30

I feel like it's kind of, well, it's kind of like when you think of bacon grease, like not, they tell you like not to pour bacon, grease down the drain, same kind of thing with coconut oil. It's no doubt.

Emily: 12:42

no, really not. We're just ignoring that fact.

Vanessa: 12:46

So now that we know all about saturated fats, Unsaturated fats are the ones that we want to be eating the most of. So we have mono unsaturated fats and polyunsaturated fats, and I won't get into the science-y reasons why they're called, that just has to do with their molecular Shane and would be kind of boring. But those are the two fats that you want most of your fat intake to be compressed. So mono unsaturated fats are things like avocados, nuts, seeds, olive oil, olives, and then polyunsaturated fats are things like walnuts, flax seeds, fish flaxseed oils. And this is also where you're going to get your omega three. So your body can't make omega-3. So it's really important to get them from food. A great way to get omega three is if you are a fish eater, eating fish to two to three times a week, and if you are plant-based then including things like flax seeds, walnuts. Canola or soul soybean oil. And honestly, whether you eat fish or not, make sure you're getting those plant sources either way. I don't think most people are eating fish to two to three times a week. Anyhow, whether that's, you know, you don't have access to fresh fish or maybe you don't like it that much. So it's really, really, it's a really, really good idea to include those plant sources. And those are easy to throw in a smoothie in the morning or throw in your oatmeal. So it's not actually that hard to get those sources of omega threes.

Emily: 14:30

Yeah, definitely. And keeping it kind of cost effective. I usually buy like a big bulk bag of flaxseeds. You can even buy the on-ground and grind them yourself and that'll be even cheaper. And you can just keep them in your freezer. So they last a super long time. And then you can just add a scoop whenever, like necessary oatmeal, smoothie, whatever. And that can really put you ahead on your, on saturated fat.

Vanessa: 14:54

And this is your reminder to that. Flax seeds do go rancid at room temperature. So you do need to refrigerate them. Or like Emily said, if you're having, if you're going to have them for a really long time, which most people do, so you get a big thing of them. The freezer is a good option as well.

Emily: 15:11

Yeah, definitely. That's going to shock some people for sure.

Vanessa: 15:16

Yeah, definitely.

Emily: 15:17

So a really interesting article that I was reading was called how the ideology of low fat conquered America. And now that

Vanessa: 15:26

No.

Emily: 15:27

how to eat fat, what types, all the different information. I think we should talk about why. Fat's been villainized in our country. So ultimately a lot of this has to do with money. So the food industry saw this low fat, high carb type of trend as an opportunity to create a whole

Vanessa: 15:49

Um,

Emily: 15:50

range of products. So

Vanessa: 15:52

so

Emily: 15:52

fat-free frozen yogurt, fat-free muffins, cookies, fat-free sour cream. And the kind of the idea

Vanessa: 16:00

not guilt.

Emily: 16:01

take out the fat, but we're going to have to add something in. And it typically was lots of shows. Okay. And is something that's so frustrating and that I, I really wish that could make a different assumption than like, oh, we can have any fat. And then now we have to have a bunch of something else. And then now nobody wants to use sugar. The answer definitely lies in kind of the, in between here and this study, this how the ideology of low fat conquered America is really going to give you a little bit more of an insight. So the biggest reason why we have a low fat diet, there's two kinds of components, right. And the first component is that. Aesthetics. Right? And this diet was at first adopted for those reasons. Even in like the 1920s slimming kind of started being a thing, especially for female identifying people and scientists and doctors didn't start promoting it for health until like the fifties ish. is after diet culture was already well on its way. Like, okay, don't eat fat because it will make you fat. And. Then the other side of it with the medical portion is that we were seeing studies showing a correlation between high fat diets and high cholesterol levels suggesting that a really low fat diet might prevent heart disease in high risk patients. Once again, this is not controlling for any of those other factors that we talked about, like smoking or drinking, or really high stress jobs. Right. Or social isolation, right? We know that all those things can lead to lesser cardiac outcomes, but this is just focusing in on the food. And by the 1960s, low fat diets started to be. Recommended by doctors and scientists is good for like the whole nation. We saw this. Okay, well, cardiac issues are pretty prevalent and everybody wants to be thinner of course, because we're pressuring them to do so and telling them that they're so unhealthy if they're not. we also are kind of adopting this. And so after about the eighties, fat approach became. The whole, the overarching ideology for our whole country physician supported it, the government food industries and all the media was telling us low fat. And at this point there still wasn't clear evidence that it really prevents heart disease or even promotes weight loss. And it's kind of funny all of these. The study. It is diet heart study that was proposed in the sixties and seventies to kind of test this hypothesis was abandoned due to funding. So it was a hypothesis that fat in our diets contributed to heart disease. And it turns out that everyone, since they already thought it was true. Despite a lot of skepticism, we just decided to start adopting it. So we enshrined in federal health policies and general diet culture anyways, which really reminds me a lot of what we've done about the science behind weight. ended up people just automatically assumed that it was going to. Make you super unhealthy be quote unquote overweight. so we just sort of made policies and recommendations based on that rather than actual studies and actual information. And it's another really good point to remember is that. High-fat diets. Like, for example, if you're seeing like you have a really high fat diet, and then that person has increased cardiac issues. Okay. But does that mean we need low, low fat or no fat in our diets? No. Like I'm not understanding why we can't have medium fat, like just following the recommendations, what feels good in your body and understanding that we don't need to go one end of the scale to the other.

Vanessa: 19:33

Right. Yeah, And I think this. I think this is where it comes in, where not all fats are equal. So. Saying your low fat is just low. All of the fat, even those good fats, like our motto, unsaturated and polyunsaturated. You know, maybe if you are a heart patient, you want to decrease your saturated fats, but you still want to be eating those good fats like avocados nuts. Omega threes are actually proven to be really beneficial for.

Emily: 20:05

And I think the only assumption that we can make from all this information is that restriction, total restriction of any kind, never leads us to true health. Like we've seen carbs, be restricted. We've seen fat. We restricted in so many ways and it has not let our country away from cardiac disease. They're still Hold on. I want to think about, to say that has not led our society away from cardiac disease. And a lot of the goals that according to scientists would be met. Weight-wise we're seeing this increase in body size. That's not undoing it either. And so even if we were to pathologize incorrectly, this sort of You know, we see a lot of it referred to as the obesity epidemic, things like that. We're not that by doing all of this, so it doesn't even matter. So it's like back to kind of dieting in general. Like, yeah, you can try, but in a lot of ways, that's not, what's supportive of human health. So. I think the results that we've seen from restricting all these foods speak for themselves, and people are still struggling with a disordered relationship to food and body image issues more than ever, eating low fat didn't solve any of it.

Vanessa: 21:22

And next time you're in the grocery store and you see something labeled as low fat. He might be, you know, used to just picking that item and take a second to look at the label, compare it to the full fat version and likely you'll see that you know, the full fat version might have more calories, but keep in mind. So if it's something like sour cream, for example, how much sour cream are you eating? Anyway, usually it's just a dollop, right? You're not like eating the whole jar in one sitting. So. Maybe that full fat option is a better option because it might have less sugar. It might have less fillers in it, and it might be more satisfying because it has more fat, which is going to make you not want to eat as much of it.

Emily: 22:09

Totally a little bit can go a long way and then you're not sitting there still thinking, oh, I really wish I had that full fat option. It's kind of like the diet ice creams, like, Halo.

Vanessa: 22:20

Halo.

Emily: 22:20

like that. Right. Yeah. For some people, they love that shit. That's fine. You know, that really like hits the craving for you, but for some people it's like, you're eating all of that halo top and really what you wanted was a full fat ice cream. And maybe you could have had, a scoop of that and been fully satisfied. But instead you're at the bottom of a pint of halo top wishing that there was more.

Vanessa: 22:43

Yeah, no, I want nothing to do with halo top. Give me like the MSU dairy store, like full fat. Like they have like obscene amounts of fat and their ice cream. Like that's what I want.

Emily: 22:57

Totally. If you're going to do it, do it right. And in a way that really satisfies you.

Vanessa: 23:03

Yep.

Emily: 23:05

So I think we can kind of just leave everybody with our advice is to eat fat.

Vanessa: 23:10

Yeah. You know, though, I I still remember this to this day when I was little my friend's dad, he used to like make, make us eat the fat, off of me at dinner, like when we're eating at their house.

Emily: 23:26

well, yeah.

Vanessa: 23:28

I literally remember him always saying, God, eat fat to get fat. And I was like, In my like little kid had, I was thinking like, but I don't want to get fat. What are you talking about? It was such, I literally think about that all the time. It's just like so interesting how people can say weird things and it sticks with you.

Emily: 23:49

Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think, especially diet culture and foods and bodies, and I think it's so easy to kind of remember all of these different things that have been in our sphere of influence for so long. And why it's kind of to do all this unlearning work and realizing that maybe the ideas that you have in your head are not. Always true.

Vanessa: 24:12

Yes. So, next time you're at the grocery store. Think about why you're getting that low fat option and maybe consider getting the full fat option instead.

Emily: 24:23

And this is the end of our macronutrients series. So if you haven't already go back, listen to our last two episodes about protein and carbohydrates, and then you'll be a total expert in the macronutrient candidate.