Vanessa: 0:00

Hey, we are so excited to share this episode with you all today. We had so many requests for an episode on natural beauty, and we have an awesome guest to clear up lots of myths for you surrounding the clean and natural beauty industry. So let's get into it.

Emily: 0:26

Welcome to wellness Smiths. Today we have Lorraine doll Meyer. She is the award winning CEO of formula. Botanica the online organic cosmetic formulation and business school. It's trained over 11,000 organic cosmetic formulators and indie beauty entrepreneurs in 170 plus. Countries. She was voted the most influential person in natural beauty for 2020 and awarded the digital achiever of the year award for the cosmetics industry by Google. Lorraine is on a mission to teach the world to formulate welcome Lorraine.

Lorraine: 0:59

Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

Vanessa: 1:03

Yeah, we're so excited to have you on, we know this is something that our listeners were asking for and wanted to know more about. And Emily and I don't know a ton about. Your area of expertise. So we're excited to learn more today. So when we talk about green beauty, can you tell us what that means?

Lorraine: 1:23

Uh, the, the million dollar question. So I guess it means different things to different people, but I'll walk you through what it means for us. Green beauty means working. With natural or naturally derived ingredients that are sustainably sourced, so that don't damage the environment. And in fact, may even in some ways, be able to have a beneficial environmental effect as well. So obviously formula Botanica, we teach to organic standards. So organic ingredients fall into that category for us as well. but as I said, green beauty will mean different things to different people, but that's our definition.

Vanessa: 1:56

And when you say natural products, what do you mean by natural?

Lorraine: 2:02

That's an even harder question. So there are different ways of defining the word natural. And this is a, yeah, this is a real minefield because. For some people natural means it's just been picked from a tree. And for other people, natural can maybe have undergone some chemical processing. So let me give you an example, you know, cold press, plant oils. They are often derived from nuts and seeds they're then physically pressed in order to extract the oils. And then you have your finished product. So chemically your ingredient is pretty much the same as it was in the plant. It's just undergone physical processing. Now, if we're talking about, for instance, an emulsifier, which is an ingredient used to bind oil and water together. So when you buy a lotion, a body lotion that has an emulsifier in it that may originally have been picked from nature, like. Come from a plant often coconut oil or Palm oil in particular, but it has then undergone some chemical processing in order for it to become the emulsifier that you use in your formulations. So some people would view that as natural because it originally came from a plant. Other people who are perhaps a little bit more purist about how they view it would say no way, I'm not working with that type of ingredient because it hasn't just come straight from nature. And that's where you start to have to trade things off against each other. Because if you can't find an emulsifier that binds oil and water together, then you can't make a lotion. Right? So that's, yeah, we cater for both types of definition and there are sort of further ways of exploring natural, even further. You can look at nature, identical. This one's a real minefield because you might say, okay, I have an ingredient here that is chemically identical to the one found in nature. Therefore, I accept that as being natural too, even though it was derived or synthesized in a lab and some people would say, yeah, I'm okay with that. And others would say no way, I'm not working with that. So you can see natural is quite a complex topic and there is no. Right or wrong answer to it, I think is the best way to approach it. Some people will just say, I'm going with a more purist view and the others will be a little bit more pragmatic, but again, there's no right or wrong.

Emily: 4:19

It's so interesting. There's so many parallels between that and food because natural is a label that we see oftentimes on food. And for us, the only requirement is that it has to be derived in a way that is consistent with the current industry standard. So it could be like not a natural thing at all. It's just that it's. Something that's been done before and is done often in the industry, but it has nothing to do with the actual product itself. So it's interesting to hear that it's kind of ambiguous for beauty as well.

Lorraine: 4:54

Yeah, I think there were probably lots of parallels. And ultimately, yeah, this is why we work to organic standards because at least then there are, you know, certification standards you can work with and you have standards that accept certain types of ingredients. Whereas natural, it's just a moving feast and people have tried to regulate it. I know that certain bills have been put forward in the U S even, but I don't think anyone's ever going to fully agree on what it means, to be honest.

Vanessa: 5:22

So I know another big misconnect. Exception is that because a product is quote natural, that a lot of people might perceive that as it doesn't work as well. What do you think about that?

Lorraine: 5:34

Yeah. I don't know where that myth has come from, but I've heard it many times over the years. I mean, I think a lot of that stems from the way the beauty industry has really found its feet in the last hundred to hundred and 50 years. And. Spend a lot of time over Christmas reading history books about the beauty industry, which is truly fascinating because we've been told how to look, how to smell, how to feel, how to be hygienic by an industry that is effectively driven by marketing. And I think we all know that, but I find it fascinating when you go back to the fifties and sixties, people only wash their hair once a week. If you go back to the twenties, People didn't wear makeup. It was only really starting to come in because of Hollywood at that time. So. Things have really changed over the last century ready because of the way that we've been told to behave. So because of that, there's been this real misconception of a beauty product must have been made by the, the chemicals industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the mainstream cosmetics industry for it to work. We've been very much told that in the advertising that we've seen. And I think because of that, people have sort of let go of their roots or lessen a bit and forgotten that. Before, all of that found its feet. People were making their own DIY beauty products and we have been working with oils and butters and waxes for millennia. So yeah, I think it's sad that there is still that misconception out there that natural skincare doesn't work and you need chemicals, skincare to banish the wrinkles because ultimately, you know, you have it in your own power to, to formulate your own products as well, which is of course what we teach at formula Botanica.

Vanessa: 7:10

Yeah, and I found it really interesting. I was actually listening to your podcast. And you had a guest on talking about natural deodorant. Cause I think that is a big product that people reference maybe when they say something doesn't work and the trend of people injecting Botox into their scalps and into their armpits to not sweat anymore. And that. It's crazy.

Lorraine: 7:38

No. I was quite shocked by that when I was researching that podcast episode. But then on the other hand, you know, there are different types of deodorants as I talked about on that particular episode with ardor from NOLA care. Now you've got deodorants that helps sort of mask the sweat and then you've got antiperspirants, which actually stop your skin from sweating. And yeah, that is very hard to make naturally. And yeah, I'm sure deodorants play a big factor in the fact that people think that natural skincare doesn't work, but it is perfectly possible to have a deodorant that you maybe apply a little more frequently, but still helps you with any odor or sweat. And as we talked about in that particular episode that obviously I had on my green beauty conversations, podcasts, you know, we even talked about whether sweat is something we should be ashamed of. So again, it comes back to the way that we've been conditioned by over a century of advertising from the cosmetics industry.

Emily: 8:31

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. When you were mentioning that maybe we just have too high of expectations and trying to stop these natural functions isn't normal. So it would make sense that it's really hard.

Lorraine: 8:45

Clearly our body has to sweat, right? If we don't sweat, we die. So the fact that we've been effectively taught not to is a little bit crazy. And the fact that anyone inject something into their armpit to stop them from sweating is nuts. Anyway.

Emily: 8:58

Right. Yeah. With that needs to be a whole like society rehaul before anything else?

Lorraine: 9:03

exactly.

Vanessa: 9:05

Yeah, I think I'm going to just be okay with maybe being a little bit more stinky versus having a needle or a few needles go into me.

Lorraine: 9:14

I love it. Yeah.

Vanessa: 9:16

So you mentioned earlier two words like emulsifiers and preservatives, and I think that people. Get a little bit scared of those words and maybe it's just because they don't necessarily know what they mean. And there's been a little fear-mongering around them. Can you tell us a little bit more about preservatives?

Lorraine: 9:36

Yes. So preservatives are a hot topic. If we go back to 2004, as a scientific study, came out that year from a researcher here in the UK who was examining tissues of breast cancer patients and she discovered parabens in there. Now I'm going to say straight away, upfront that she found no link between parabens and breast cancer, but as you can imagine, the media jumped on that and they run with it and it created this. This whole fear, this power Benoit is some people called it at the time. And there were all these sensationalist headlines about, you know, could your deodorant be killing you? And the researchers in question even puts out a small statement in a scientific journal because the heyday, our research is about six months later to basically say, look, just to clarify, we really did not find a link we're recommending further studies, but by that point, the damage was done. And it really found its feet very quickly and sort of spread like wildfire because as you can imagine, 2004 also coincided with the rise of social media. So all of a sudden people were sharing this information online and they were sort of, yeah, they were causing chemo phobia. They were scaring people with these chemical names. Now I will say again, we don't work with parabens that formula Botanica because they're not deemed to be natural. And they all synthesized in the lab, but saying that they have been found in certain fruits and plants in nature as well. So originally they are, I suppose, in some respects, a natural chemical, and they have been used for hundreds of years in costume. We don't work with them though. It is what it is. But then people starts to look at other chemicals used in cosmetics and they started to say, Oh, sodium lauryl, sulfate, sodium, laureth itself, fate who wants that on their hair? What are these long chemical names? Why would I have that? If I could have a natural ingredient instead? And I always came at the natural beauty industry from a slightly different angle. Like I was always entranced by the beauty of, of plants and herbs and what they could mean in your, in your formulations. So to find this whole community of people going rawr on chemicals, we don't want them anywhere near our body was a bit of a shock for me in the beginning. So yeah, a lot of these terms like emulsifier preservative, Fact, and solubilize a key later, you know, they scare people because they don't know what they mean. but there are natural and naturally derived versions of all of those ingredients now because the cosmetics industry has had to keep up by the fact that consumer habits and consumer pressures is just had to change the cosmetics industry. And they've had to start to reformulate a lot of the products that we see on the market now. But those words are just sort of functional ingredients that basically stabilize the cosmetics that you can buy out there in the world. And they're nothing to be scared of.

Vanessa: 12:23

And I'm sure they're probably really important. we don't necessarily use our beauty products that quickly so it's probably really important that we have some kind of preservative in them.

Lorraine: 12:35

Absolutely. I mean, if you have a water-based cosmetic, it needs to be preserved. If you don't preserve it, it will go off. It will start to create microbial growth. No one wants fungus on their face, right? No one wants fungus in their hair. You need preservatives. And. Again, in the beginning, when I first got into this about 10 years ago, I would see a lot of people talk about using unpreserved products because they thought it was better. But the risk of using preservatives is far, far less than the risk of using unpreserved cosmetics. And that's a really important message to take away. Nowadays I'm seeing that, that conversation abate a little bit. I don't see people have that. Debates so much online anymore. Cause I think people are starting to understand that. Yes, you do need a preservative. If you're going to use a water based product, but it's taken us 10 years to get there.

Vanessa: 13:28

And is there any common preservatives that you would tell people to maybe steer away from.

Lorraine: 13:34

Well, the interesting thing about how we operate it, formula Botanica and we're slightly different to a lot of other educators in that respect is that we don't vilify synthetic cosmetic ingredients. We just don't work with them. They don't really feature in my world. I'm a biologist, not a chemist as well. I have a team of formulators and chemists working for me, but we tend to say rather than fear mongering about things that we don't really work with. We'd like to talk about the positives of what we can work with. So generally I don't put out sort of lists of ingredients that you should avoid. I just talk about ingredients that we should all be embracing instead.

Vanessa: 14:12

Interesting. Yeah. I feel like so many times we think about, okay, what things do I want to look to avoid? So I guess in contrast to that, are there things that people should look for?

Lorraine: 14:25

Personally, I think. There is great beauty in simplicity. And I'm seeing this in a lot of indie brands where they're embracing very potent, simple formulations, which can be absolutely phenomenal. And let me give you one example. One of our graduates is a lady called Shelly. She lives in Maryland USA and she runs a brand called kiss kiss. Goodnight, absolutely phenomenal, baby and mother skincare brand. And she has this three in one baby bath gel. That is so simple, has five ingredients in it. And it is one of the most beautiful formulations I've ever been sent. And actually, I think something like that is much, much better to use than something that contains 40, 50 different ingredients. Because a lot of beauty products, a lot of beauty companies have gone way too far in the opposite direction. So I would recommend. Looking for something simple researching some of the interesting plants out there that you can use in cosmetics, like or borage or corn flour Rose, which I'm sure many of your listeners have heard of because they're amazing herbs and those types of ingredients can have wonderful effects on the skin. So I'd start with that.

Vanessa: 15:34

So less is more.

Lorraine: 15:36

Yeah, definitely. And I think the same goes with the lots of things in life.

Vanessa: 15:40

Yeah. Yeah. I, it makes me think of sometimes even with food, like making a recipe, sometimes just having those quality ingredients in maybe very few ingredients can make the best, most delectable dishes. Um, so I know another common misunderstanding is how much we absorb of. Product on our skin. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Lorraine: 16:12

Absolutely. So this is one that I see come back all the time and I have seen it for the last 10 years. It doesn't seem to be going away. People keep putting out into the world that 60% of the chemicals in cosmetics end up in your bloodstream. And that's simply not true. I think I know where this came from. I once found a textbook that had a really small sort of sentence in it that said the up to 60% could end up in your body. And I think someone wants read that, put it on the internet and it went viral and it's not stopped since. And I think another article that came out a while ago was that five pounds of cosmetics are absorbed into your body every year. Again, completely wrong. Because the thing to understand here is you can't put a finger on something so complex. Every single person's skin behaves in a slightly different way. We're all in a different environment. And we all have different humidity around us. Some people's skin barrier will be compromised. Other people's won't also some of the ingredients won't penetrate into the skin. I can go into lots of skin anatomy here, but I think the main thing to understand is if you put an oil on the top of your skin, it won't penetrate all the way through to your bloodstream because ultimately the top layers of your skin are compatible with the oil, but the bottom layers of your skin, they repel oil. So the oil will never get that far through. And then of course, you know, there are all sorts of different formulations. That we're using and some of them will be, um, we'll give you the opportunity for them to penetrate slightly further into the skin and others won't and cosmetics. This is the ultimate point. Really cosmetics are to be used on the outside of the skin. They're not meant to penetrate into your body because then they become drugs or pharmaceuticals. So. I don't quite know why this has gone so viral. And I think it plays a big part in driving a lot of the fear that pushes people towards naturals. I would prefer it if people came to naturals because of the positives that I think they can offer also in terms of wellbeing. But yeah, it's, you can't put a figure on something so complex. I'm afraid. So, yeah, that's a myth that definitely floats around the internet a lot.

Emily: 18:18

Yeah, it seems like there's so many variables that you can never really even give anyone a fully. A hundred percent correct. Answer to that.

Lorraine: 18:29

Yeah, absolutely. If you're having a massage with lots of essential oils that might increase their penetration into the skin, if you're just putting an oil with some essential oils on the outside of your skin, it might not penetrate quite so much. It's just not something you can put a figure on.

Emily: 18:45

All right. That makes sense. It's kind of funny. There's just so many parallels with this, with nutrition, because Vanessa and I have been saying for years, basically how it's so much more effective to talk to people about things they can add into their diet than things they have to subtract. It's so, so reminiscent of what you're saying on how focusing on the awesome benefits of other ingredients is better than vilifying the other ones.

Lorraine: 19:14

Yeah. And you know what, even with sustainability, um, I trained as an environmental scientist and I've worked as an environmental consultant for decade before I did this. And if you. If you reward people and make them feel proud of something they've done, they're far more likely to do more of it than if you make them feel guilty about their choices. And the same goes, I guess, with food. And it certainly goes with, with beauty as well. I think.

Emily: 19:36

A big trend right now is retinol. And I'm wondering if there is a natural alternative to this product, because I know a lot of people are using it for anti-aging and just general skin health. Okay.

Lorraine: 19:52

So I'd need to pull my team in for this one, actually, because at the moment they are all doing a lots of research on an ingredient called , which From, I think it's a Chinese herb called to verify that one. Um, but you know, there are some natural alternatives that are coming onto the market, which is supposed to be very good as well. Um, now saying my team is in the middle of R and D. They are whole education team is currently making lots of different products with Kikuchi all to test them all out because we actually have a membership site where we teach many courses and we're putting out a book tutorial, mini mini course, actually in a couple of months. But yeah, there are natural alternatives out there and they seem to really be taking the indie market by storm at the moment, which is very exciting to see, because I think there's very much this trend of, and this, I suppose, ties in with what I was saying earlier. You know, you mustn't age, you mustn't have wrinkles, you mustn't become old. And I think retinol is very much played a trend in that too.

Emily: 20:50

Yeah, it's definitely preying on people's insecurities or worries about that.

Lorraine: 20:57

Yeah, exactly. And I think that's what a lot of the beauty industry does, which is why I think the Indian, the natural sector has really capitalized on that. That concept of let's bring wellbeing into beauty, rather than just talking about it, being on the surface of the skin. Now I will say that. All of the cosmetics regulations around the world, don't really like you making claims for wellbeing with your beauty products, because of course a cosmetic product is simply there to beautified also your parents and cleanse effectively. But the indie sector has really grasped that that's not what consumers want to hear anymore. They want to bring that element of wellbeing into their life. And that's where I think the natural sector is doing a very good job.

Emily: 21:39

Yeah, that's really cool. So we've talked a bit about ingredients. Are there any particular green beauty brands that you would recommend?

Lorraine: 21:49

All of our graduates. I am totally biased. I'm afraid. I'm saying that some of our graduates have done incredible, incredible things. You know, our most successful graduates are called Bybee. They are being rolled out into the youth and to the U S at the moment, actually in 1800 targets. They've just raised $7 million in investment funding, just phenomenal that they're doing. But we have graduates in almost every country and on our website formula botanica.com. We have a big graduate gallery and they're all doing different things, different niches, different target markets. It's so exciting to watch. So I will admit that I only really use products from our graduates because I am totally biased and B they all send me their products, so don't need to buy. My whole office filled with products. Honestly, even someone wrote to me the other day on Instagram, who isn't one of her graduates and they were like, can I send you my products? And I went, please know you haven't studied with us. I really don't have the bandwidth to go beyond our graduate communities. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm biased. I'm afraid.

Emily: 22:57

You have said there's a directory for the people that you have that have worked with you.

Lorraine: 23:03

Yes on our website, we have a graduate gallery and you can even filter it there by region of the world. So for instance, if you choose North America, we'll show all of our graduate brands in North America. And the amazing,

Emily: 23:14

okay. Awesome. We'll definitely link your website in our show notes for those who are curious. So for someone who is just starting out on their green beauty journey, maybe they're listening to this thinking. Okay. I'm not exactly sure. What's in my products now. And I'm curious to make a shift. What are the most important things or tips to keep in mind?

Lorraine: 23:37

I think the most important thing is to connect with a brand that, that speaks to you where you trust the person behind it. And I think this is again where the indie sector has done really well because. It's I think a lot of consumers have a lot of mistrust in the big brands, which is why that sort of personal connection that you get with a lot of indie brands can be very, very powerful. So I think the first thing to do is to go and get to know some of the indie brands in your area, find out what they're making, get to know the makers, because generally they're the people running the social media accounts. They're the people answering the emails that come in and a lot of them are making absolutely amazing products. The next thing I would do is start to, yeah, just educate yourself a little bit about how to read labels, which isn't always easy here in the EU. We have a lot stricter labeling regulations than you do in North America, particularly the U S where the cosmetics regulations haven't been updated since the late thirties. I think that you're an overhaul quite frankly.

Emily: 24:39

yeah, I've heard the same from others.

Lorraine: 24:41

Yeah. And I think there, there there's a real reluctance to sort of align all of these regulations globally because we set much, much stricter regulations over here in the EU, but I think it would be worth doing for the entire sector to be honest. So I'd say those are the main two things to start with. Get to know the indie brands around you go and buy from them. They're small businesses. Anyway, we should all be supporting small businesses at the moment and then start to learn how to read a label. So start to learn some of the, the, the sort of technical language that's used on the back of labels and ask the brands as well, because often they're very, very happy to explain things to you.

Vanessa: 25:20

I love that you mentioned that on your website, in that gallery where you can search and find indie brands and find, um, small businesses near you. I just. I love that because I even think about myself sometimes. And now I'm thinking of this little shamefully, but you know, you go to Google and you type in natural skincare or clean beauty or, you know, green beauty or whatever it is. And then of course, you're just going to, the big brands are going to pop up and you're going to maybe miss out on those smaller brands that are really great.

Lorraine: 25:56

Clearly, and I'm sure it's the same with food producers. You know, there are so many amazing small businesses around us and of course, so many of them have really struggled. Last year. So now more than ever, we should be supporting them and helping them thrive in these times.

Emily: 26:10

Well, this has been so informational and helpful, at least for me to listen to someone who really had no idea about this industry. So thank you so much for sharing all of your information.

Lorraine: 26:25

Thank you so much for having me. It's a real pleasure to be on your podcast.

Emily: 26:29

Yeah. So if people want to hear more from you or your offerings, where can they find you?

Lorraine: 26:37

So we are over@formulabotanica.com. We are also on every single social media platform, pretty much as formula Botanica. So come and follow us. We teach a free online cosmetic formulation class, which walks through, you know, the different types of ingredients, botanical ingredients used in formulations. Had to make a body butter, had to get your lab space set up at home, which is very, very straightforward. Um, you know, very welcome to come and take that we have thousands of people go through that each month and it's lots of fun and come and follow me as well on, um, on social media. I'm over at Lorraine. DELMIA on Instagram. So I'd love it. If you came and gave me a follow too.

Emily: 27:15

awesome. And we'll link everything in our notes so that listeners can have easy access to that. Yes. Thank you so much for being Hillary.

Lorraine: 27:26

It's really lovely to connect with you and yeah, I hope all the listeners enjoyed this today and yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

Vanessa: 27:33

Thanks Lorraine. Be well. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of wellness myths. If you could subscribe and review, we would be so grateful. if you like our podcast and stick around next week, we have another great podcast. Guest we're talking to a migraine dietician. So if you're someone who suffers from migraine, definitely tune in next week. Bye.