Vanessa: 0:00

Hey, um, wanted to say good morning. I don't know

Emily: 0:05

Good morning.

Vanessa: 0:06

I don't know we're recording this at night, but I don't know if it's because I'm in my closet and there's no windows in here. So I've lost all sense of time or maybe it's because you're drinking coffee.

Emily: 0:23

That's like me with my 4:00 PM coffee. Cause I can't adjust to the time.

Vanessa: 0:27

So anyway, we are doing an episode today on KIDO, the ketogenic diet. We've gotten a lot of. requests for this episode, and we're pretty excited to share what we know about keto with you all.

Emily: 0:47

Yeah, this is one that even in my everyday life, it comes up so often where people are constantly asking you about this diet, asking if it's a quote unquote, good diet. I can't wait to clarify everybody's questions on this episode.

Vanessa: 1:04

I think, Quito is definitely misunderstood. but not in a good way.

Emily: 1:08

Let's get into it. Welcome to this week's episode of wellness myths, where we are here to tell you all about the ketogenic diet. So, Vanessa, do you want to explain for us what the ketogenic diet is?

Vanessa: 1:31

Sure. I'm happy to Emily. So the ketogenic diet is a very high, fat, very low carb diet. So the point of it is to cause a metabolic shift. So your brain is utilizing ketones for energy rather than glucose, which is its preferred source. So typically this is done using a four to one ratio of grams of fat to one gram of carbohydrates and protein. So I just want to emphasize that again, four grams of fat to one gram of carbohydrates and protein. So we're talking really, really, really restrictive and carbohydrates. So that means you're looking at carbohydrates and medications, lotions, soaps, toothpaste, like really getting in to the nitty gritty here to actually get the body into ketosis.

Emily: 2:22

So that's a lot of fat,

Vanessa: 2:25

That's a lot, a lot of fat a lot. So I think it might be helpful to right now to pull, I pulled up like a sample meal. And this would be used in like a therapeutic setting. We'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute for a keto diet. So this would be a lunch. So this sample meal contains 30 grams of fat, seven and a half grams of protein and carbohydrates. So that's seven and a half grams of protein in carbohydrates combined in 30 grams of fat. So the meal get ready. It's pretty thrilling. I'm sure you're going to be feeling so hungry after that. This meal honestly makes me want to throw up a little bit, but that's just me. Maybe it sounds good to you. So it is 46 grams of cream, four grams of canola oil, six grams of butter, 20 grams of spaghetti squash and 15 grams of cheddar cheese, Bon Appetit.

Emily: 3:40

It's already. That's something where. You're probably not going to want to eat that every single day for every single meal.

Vanessa: 3:50

No. And I think maybe right now is a good time to tell you why we even have a sample meal for Quito or why that exists, what the origins of Quito are. And. One place where it may actually be helpful. And I promise it's not your trainer at the gym telling you to do keto. That is not the spot that we'd like it. Yeah.

Emily: 4:18

Not a reliable diet guidance. That's for sure.

Vanessa: 4:22

No offense to trainers. But I am going to call you out if you're recommending Quito to your clients.

Emily: 4:29

You know, what we want now. So, I don't know about you, but when I see people attempting the ketogenic diet for. Mostly weight loss purposes, right. Or quote unquote health. I don't really see them eating meals that are completely fat-based. Like, I see them eating a lot of like bacon wrapped hamburger type of situation, but I don't really see anyone doing the whole weigh your food out. Right. Like you're saying grams. And usually people following a diet for medical reasons will be. Super specific. Usually the people that are doing it just casually are not even achieving that actual ketosis phase, which we'll talk about in a moment. But

Vanessa: 5:16

But

Emily: 5:17

the whole point of being on a ketogenic diet is using those ketones for your brain's main energy source instead of glucose. So by having any excess carbohydrate than what we just said, you're throwing yourself out of ketosis. So most people that I see that are doing the keto diet have a cheat day, or they, you know, eat bread in the morning or something, then they're keto for the rest of the day. That just doesn't work. That's not going to give you the same results. You will not be in ketosis, which thank God you won't be. Because it's not good for you to be in that stage. But it's. Really confusing to me how this has even become a trend because the people aren't even really in ketosis.

Vanessa: 6:01

So, yeah, to your point, I mean, this is a really, really restrictive diet and it's really, really hard to follow and would be extremely hard without medical guidance. Like I mentioned, I mean, you're even looking for carbohydrates in medications, lotions, soaps, toothpaste. I mean, that's really strict stuff. We're talking Berry very, very few carbohydrates.

Emily: 6:28

Yeah, and I don't think I've ever heard someone who's attempting the keto diet. Talk about the carbs in their body wash. I've just never heard that personally.

Vanessa: 6:39

Yeah. And you shouldn't for the record, please, don't be worried about the carbs in your body wash, unless, um, you're someone who's actually on a ketogenic diet therapeutically with medical guidance Which is a very small percentage of the population, but yeah, please don't start worrying about the carbs in your lotion.

Emily: 7:03

People are like Vanessa and Emily told me that I have to look out for the carbs and my personal care products. And that's what I'm going to do.

Vanessa: 7:10

Oh my gosh. Don't even start that rumor place.

Emily: 7:14

Disclaimer, don't worry about those. So can you tell us a little bit about when the ketogenic diet is appropriate?

Vanessa: 7:24

the key genic diet is a diet. That's used therapeutically for children who suffer from seizures. So for reasons that are unknown they found that seizures decrease when brain metabolism switches from its favorite source glucose to ketones. this kind of diet would be maybe recommended for a child that suffers from seizures. for maybe two years, at the longest, and the reason that it's time limited like that is because this diet seriously wax bitumens and minerals, and they see sometimes it might help a child with seizures, but it might disrupt their growth a little bit. So they don't want them on this kind of diet for a really long time. But it can be helpful in the short term.

Emily: 8:12

And even with any restrictive diet, right. Even if you're, you know, on an elimination diet to figure out a food sensitivity or any kind of diet where we're really restricting, it's never a permanent. Type of situation. So it makes sense that Quito would not be any difference.

Vanessa: 8:30

You know, we talk a lot with Kito about, you know, reducing carbohydrates so much, but you're also reducing protein a ton too. so you're taking out two out of three of your macronutrients, which is gonna cause a huge, huge deficit.

Emily: 8:49

And that's something that I think our listeners can really benefit from knowing is that anytime a diet asks you to take out macro nutrients, that's just a no right away. I mean every weight loss diet that's kind of this way is a from me. But I think that, especially when I asked you to take out macro nutrients It's going to be overall damaging to your health longterm.

Vanessa: 9:13

Right,

Emily: 9:14

It reminds me of the Atkins diet, where they restricted carbs super heavily. And I think that's kind of the phase that started to demonize eating carbohydrates. and that really put a lot of blame on bread and grains. And I think that. You know, that made our culture ripe for the picking with popularity of the ketogenic diet, just growing and growing.

Vanessa: 9:43

Yeah, I was going to say like, who made Quito really popular? Like with someone just, was it a dietician that was treating children with seizures? That was like, Hey, I can sell this people really buy this. What was it and who bought onto the idea? Like, you know what, I'm just going to eat a bunch of cheese, like, Oh, I'm going to eat cheese and bacon and that's going to be a diet. That's great for me. Like what the heck, people like, hello, these are not things that we prescribe as, like, these are super nutrient dense foods that you should eat a ton of.

Emily: 10:23

And there's other sources, right? It's kind of funny. It makes me think a lot about plant-based nutrition and how I was actually just home the other week. And I was visiting my grandma and she was asking me, Oh, don't you have so many issues with lean people because you're vegan. And you know, you might have to tell people to eat foods that you don't eat. And I'm like, grandma, we don't really tell people like eat more steak, eat more cheese. It just doesn't really come up. Not because I think those foods are going to kill you if you eat them. But it just doesn't come up because they're not the health promoting intense food, intensely nutritious foods like grains and fruits and vegetables, all those things that we really need.

Vanessa: 11:06

Well, yeah, as dieticians. I mean, normally if we're talking to a client about, you know, let's say we want them, we think they're in maybe a little bit deficient in a suit, certain vitamin or mineral. We usually talk in a variety of things. Foods, and different foods that are suited to their preferences. So we're, we're never going to like tow one food, like just eat this. You need to eat more and more and more of this. We're going to give them a lot of different choices of things that fit into their lifestyle and to their likes and are sustainable for them to actually make the changes and, you know, get out of a possible deficiency that they might be in.

Emily: 11:49

Yeah, definitely. And one thing, if we want to know more about where KIDO became so popular, I still think Atkins like primed everybody, but I did see in my research that the Kardashians promote it pretty heavily.

Vanessa: 12:05

Oh, my gosh, the, the Kardashians have come up more than once in this podcast. I feel like. And that's so interesting to me because I'm not a Kardashian lover. Like I'm, I'm not gonna throw any mud or anything right now, but they're definitely not people that I respect. SPECT, sorry if that loses listeners for our Kardashians lovers, but Oh my gosh, just another reason against the Kardashians.

Emily: 12:35

Yeah. I think like the waist trainers really did it for me initially. And I mean the shape where, you know, I respect the business prowess, but they're definitely profiting off of diet culture and toxic beauty standards for sure. Another thing that we kind of see a lot of our before and after photos of people crediting Quito as this miracle that helped them lose so much way. I mean, it's pretty much always about weight loss. That's kind of the big reason that people do the ketogenic diet. And another thing that I hear a lot about while we're just on the topic of that diet culture aspect, people have said to me before, Oh, it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle. And this is a great example of how insidious diet culture is that they kind of just put a different name on it and thought, okay, yeah, yeah, it'll be fine. Well, I mean, a lifestyle has to fit your needs and your likes dislikes as we just Vanessa just mentioned, but it also has to be flexible. And this isn't flexible because you simply are not in keto. If. You're not in a ketogenic state, if you are flexible and if it is a lifestyle, so it's like why even bother even if there was a benefit to being in ketosis, why would you even bother? Because you're not even going to be in it unless you're sitting there with your food scale, like tap, tap, how many grams constantly. So what's even the point.

Vanessa: 14:03

I just want our listeners to know right now, I know this is an audio platform, but when Emily said keto is a lifestyle, I just wish everyone could have seen how far on my face, my eyebrows raised. It's

Emily: 14:22

I hear that all the time,

Vanessa: 14:24

about that.

Emily: 14:26

all the time. I hear that from people all the time.

Vanessa: 14:30

Yeah. Beyond Quito, uh, you know, being really being ketosis, being really hard to attain as a dietician, you are going to cause nutrient deficiencies and of story period. Quito will not give you all of your micronutrients. And that's just a fact

Emily: 14:58

There's no way that you can possibly get all of the fiber that you need in your diet because you're restricting a big source of fiber carbohydrates.

Vanessa: 15:07

You gotta call it poop every day. And I just don't know if that's gonna happen for you.

Emily: 15:12

Yeah. I mean, the lack of fiber and the influx of dairy does not say good things for most people's digestive systems. so when people say. If we're really going to dive into why the ketogenic diet can be really harmful, which we've kind of been talking about the whole time, because you can't say anything about it without referencing that, but when they talk about these fat burning benefits of the diet, you're not reaping any of those. If you're not extremely strict about it, which nobody is as we've been saying. and we know that if we're just in the, if we're just in the game of keto for the weight loss, We're here to tell you health promoting behavior works, not just weight loss for the sake of weight loss. Right? Because we know that a lot of the times when people lose weight, it can be. From a serious deficit in their health. I mean, so many people say, Oh, I had the most comments on my body when I was feeling the absolute worst. You know, like when I break up, when I broke up with my high school boyfriend, who's now my husband, but I lost like 15 pounds. Right. Because I was just so miserable every day. And then when I started gaining weight back, It was like, I got less comments on my body, less praise, less affirmative words about it. And I think for a lot of people that feels really damaging. so I, I hate the thought that some people are doing keto and they might achieve quote-unquote results in the form of weight loss because it's restrictive, so for people that do have a weight loss result with keto, because I just know somebody is going to listen to this and think, but I know so-and-so and they lost weight doing this diet. Well, number one, my first question is how about five years later? Do they still live in the same body or have they gained it all back plus some, because that's what we know usually happens when we pursue intentional weight loss.

Vanessa: 17:12

And wait, I'm Emily. I'm going to say how about one year later? How about six months later? I'm I'm going to give it a much lower timeline than five years.

Emily: 17:25

Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because there's a lot of studies that measure, you know, like say there's studies that measure diets for weight loss and they say, Oh, at three months they had this weight loss at six months, they had this and at one year, and now it's all good. They're fixed, quote unquote. And then like, but there's no measurement of like what happened to them five years later? You know, it's like sometimes it's, it takes a long time for the body to like read. To regulate. And then usually the result is you have this higher set point now because your body's like, wait, are you going to take food away from me again? Are you going to take carbs away from me again? And then you're just putting yourself in this spiral of cons consistently being at a higher weight because you're trying to diet so hard.

Vanessa: 18:06

Maybe we can link some kind of visual or something like that about set point for our listeners, if they're interested. Cause I think set point is, I mean, it's something to explain, but I feel like it's much better portrayed visually.

Emily: 18:22

Yeah, definitely. We can totally do that. So when you see someone that long story short backed up from our original idea, after we went down this tangent when people have this weight loss from the ketogenic diet, it's not because they're just burning fat, nonstop morning, noon, and night, because as you now know, they probably aren't even in ketosis, but the. Factors that helped them lose the weight could simply be restriction of food in general. Right? Like you're eating less calories. It could be the fact that, Oh, there's no keto options wherever I go. So I have to always bring my own food. I can't go out to eat anymore. I can't mindlessly eat anymore. Right. You can't just like sit on the couch with a bag of potato chips when you're on the keto diet. So you're taking out a lot of those random calories that you might have throughout the day. So usually it's due to something like that rather than the keto diet itself. And like we said, weight loss for the sake of weight loss makes no sense and health promoting behaviors. Like walking every day or meditating or stress reduction of any kind, eating fruits and vegetables. Those are the things that we focus on rather than weight loss. So even if you just see this before and after picture and are super impressed,

Vanessa: 19:43

And I think another area where I see keto a lot weight loss is definitely number one, but another one would be with diabetes control. So I think that for a lot of people, they maybe have a diabetes diagnosis or they have diabetes in their family and we know that diabetes can be genetic, or there is a genetic component I should say.

Emily: 20:12

Yeah, big one.

Vanessa: 20:13

so we get a little bit nervous about that and you think, okay, my mom and dad both have diabetes. I don't want to get diabetes. So I'll just cut out carbs. Carbs are the enemy. I'll just cut them out. I feel like in people's minds, it seems like a very easy cut and dry solution. That is not the solution. Carbs are not bad carbs. Do not cause diabetes. Okay. There's a lot more going on with diabetes. Genetic components. even if you have diabetes, you still need carbs. You might have to be more cognizant of how many carbs you're intaking or what you're eating with the carbs but you're never going to want to take carbs away in any situation. So if you have diabetes in your family and an easy solution to avoid that, You think is cutting out carbs. I promise you it is not those health promoting behaviors that Emily just spoke about are the ways that you and prevent not cutting out carbs.

Emily: 21:20

Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely. And the it's kind of interesting that you bring that up. I don't hear that as often, but it's crazy because I know there's such a huge place with plant-based nutrition in, caring for people with diabetes diagnosis. And so it's just so interesting to hear that. Kind of way the opposite because ketogenic diet is usually a lot of animal-based foods.

Vanessa: 21:47

Yeah, no, I have heard that a lot, both in like hospital settings and a WIC setting. To be clear, the ketogenic diet is not easy, but I think that it seems easy because on the outside it doesn't seem like there's that many rules, the rule seems like just don't eat carbs. There's not much more than that. There is actually a lot more than that, but I think from the outside, it seems that way.

Emily: 22:16

Yeah, and people really want a black and white situation. I mean, that's why we are really drawn to these kinds of diets, because like you said, it seems easy to people. And I mean, I have this conversation with patients all the time, intuitive eating and getting back to your actual body's needs is the hard part, because we've been so messed up by trying to follow all these rules and disordered eating that. It's really hard to get back to that. Normal pattern. so I do not doubt that people sometimes find it easier to follow these kinds of diets, at least in their heads in the beginning.

Vanessa: 22:53

Yeah. And you know what we understand too, that our are. It promotes weight loss and having a certain body size so heavily. It's so hard not to feel that pressure. And it's so hard to ignore it. I don't think Emily and I am speaking for you now, Emily, but I know, you know, at times in our life and maybe even some days we feel that pressure too. We're not excluded from that. We might have more tools to, come back into reality and push those messages away. But, um, it, it, I mean, it reaches us too.

Emily: 23:36

I think it's really important to note that antidiarrhea dietitians are not anti people who want to lose weight. It's so understandable in our culture to want that. In fact, it was it's shocking if you don't. If you somehow have been immune to that influence, so we're just anti against that being. The pursuit of weight loss being treated as though it's number one, a hundred percent in a patient's control because it's not since there's so many different factors or that it's the only thing we can do, or that it's the culprit of everything we're trying to provide a more holistic level of care.

Vanessa: 24:15

And I think that so many people are so desperate just to lose that weight, that they'll do anything, including ketogenic diet, which includes eating a bunch of cheese, which doesn't even make sense.

Emily: 24:30

Right. Exactly. And I mean, the ketogenic diet can cause kidney stones, constipation because of the lack of fiber, the nutrient deficiencies we mentioned, and an increased risk of heart disease, which is super prevalent in our culture. And also. Really linked to stress. And the negative side effects of the ketogenic diet are not always just going to be body physiological side effects. It can cause social isolation and disordered eating. We know that dieting is really a one-way track to an eating disorder for a lot of people. So that's something that you want to be really mindful of. If it's something that you're pursuing.

Vanessa: 25:14

We just want you to know that again, we love carbs. Please eat carbs. Pair your carbs with protein and fat. Eat all three of your macro nutrients. Enjoy them. Enjoy your food. Don't cut. Any macro nutrients out. I'm just waiting for the next diet. Like, are they going to tell us to cut out protein next? I mean, protein seems like it's got to come onto the chopping block pretty soon here. Everything else has been on there.

Emily: 25:44

Yeah, there's really nothing. I don't ever see that as a trend. So it, it must be coming up because people are going to look for something new to make money off of and protein, butter watches back.

Vanessa: 25:56

Protein check your sex. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of wellness, miss, please remember to subscribe and review. We so much appreciate your support. Next week, we will be talking to a dietician about how nutrition impacts your workout. See you next time.