Vanessa: 0:09

Welcome to wellness Smith. Today, we have Anna on, who is a registered dietician in Minnesota working for a pea protein company and a food science role. She works in product development and marketing alongside running the Instagram. Good vibes, better food. She's also a health at every size anti diet dietician, which we love. Of course welcome Anna.

Anna: 0:34

Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here, chatting with you all tonight.

Vanessa: 0:38

Yeah, we're excited to talk lots about food safety, which Emily has been dying to do. And I think it's a good topic now that it's hot outside and, I think that causes more concern had outside, plus people doing canning and things like that. A lot to think about with food safety there. So what first got you interested in like a food science, food safety role as an RD.

Anna: 1:05

I will say, I didn't even really know food. Science was a career path until I was a junior in college and I took a food psych class. so it was led by a food scientist and a dietician. And that dietician professor of mine who taught our food psych classes ended up being. Probably my favorite professor, I had all through college and, it was kind of funny because everyone would rip on, especially our senior year class food science. It was, we learned a lot about food safety and, you know, HASSOP and serve safe and, working in food service and all of that. And a lot of it was pretty boring, but I'm kind of a rule follower type of person. I like when things are black and white and that's a lot of how, Yeah, food safety is I like to be safe and cautious. And so I thought this was kind of a good route for me to go. Plus obviously I found food science. Very interesting.

Emily: 1:58

So can I just say how Vanessa and I, obviously, as dieticians, we have to take a very similar course about food safety and all of the many, many foodborne illnesses. And Vanessa, just like, I have to share this. Are you okay with me sharing your story?

Vanessa: 2:15

You can share.

Emily: 2:17

Um, she's like begrudging. so Vanessa actually got e-coli our junior year,

Anna: 2:25

No.

Vanessa: 2:26

Yeah, it was during our food science, food safety class and our professor. It sounds like yours was really cool. And Dr. Riser was cool. Let me put that out into the universe. Cool guy, despite what some other people might think but he loved food safety, food science. And, I had to tell him that I had Ecolab because we had an exam and I couldn't take it because I was like puking my brains out. And he was so excited, but also seemed really concerned about me.

Anna: 3:06

The irony is so palpable. That's.

Vanessa: 3:10

it was pretty miserable.

Emily: 3:13

And you got out of taking one of the exams. You got a delay on the exam because of your Ecolab. He was very understanding.

Vanessa: 3:20

Yeah. I, I would rather have taken the exam. But yeah, that's a, that's a pretty cool, uh, career path. That definitely makes sense with, you know, following rules are so many things to remember about all of the little bacteria and things like that. And lots of hard and fast rules to follow with food safety, for sure. Um, what are the most common myths you hear about food safety?

Anna: 3:49

The first one I want to address is people thinking food safety is not a big deal. Um, this is definitely something I faced with my family. I'm kind of the food safety police, and I know a lot of times it seems like overkill. So things like tell my dad, oh, make sure you temp, whatever you have on the grill. Or my sister was making wings last night and she took them out and she goes, I don't know how long these are supposed to cook for us. So I tempt them and I go there at one 40. They're supposed to be at 1 65. So I made her put them back in. But when you look at the stats, the most recent, the 2020 statistics. Stated that 7.6, 9% of individuals around the world. So 600 million individuals suffer from foodborne illness every year. And there are annually about 420,000 deaths each year from foodborne illness. So I think it's also important to remember, even if you're young and healthy, um, there are plenty of people who are really susceptible to foodborne illness. So I guess that could be another kind of misconception is. Yeah. Oh, I'm young and healthy. I'm not going to get salmonella or e-coli from eating raw cookie dough or, I like my steak super rare. And again, that's all preference. And if that's a risk you're willing to take, like that is a personal decision. I'm not going to say I've never eaten raw cookie dough. Um, but it is interesting to put it in that perspective. And that can be from a number of things. Those foodborne illnesses could come from under cooked meat, unsafe water food that just sat in the fridge too long. And that kind of gets me into another misconception, which is that oftentimes we think foodborne illnesses just from not washing your hands or just from eating animal products. And it can be a number of things. Um, it could be not washing your cutting board in between cooking meat, cutting meat and cutting vegetables, or it could be cutting up some fruit again for the summer, like a fruit salad, and then letting it sit in your fridge for a week. And, a lot of cup fruits once they are cut and exposed like that are really susceptible because of their water activity to pathogens.

Emily: 6:02

I actually never knew that about cut fruit.

Anna: 6:06

Yeah, they say specifically melons and tomatoes are really big.

Emily: 6:11

Hmm. So like how long would you leave that in your fridge after you cut it up personally?

Anna: 6:17

Me personally, Emily, I like to do a sniff test. And you can kind of feel with fruit, especially if it gets starts to get kind of slimy. I try to go no more than a week. If it was, you know, a fresh cut here. If I bought it pre-cut from the store, even less than that, maybe three, four days if I bought it in a pre-packed container already cut, just because, you know, it's already been sitting there for a few days.

Vanessa: 6:39

I feel like something else that people don't think a lot of with Mellon especially is like washing the outside before they slice it. I always think about that. Like you see people just like slice into melons and like, you know, all of the bacteria that is on the outside, they're taking it through their melon with the knife.

Anna: 7:01

Absolutely. You're right. I forgot to even mention that that is a big one with fruits where you don't eat the rind. So like you said, Honeydew cantaloupe watermelon, especially. Again, those are all really good summer fruits, but people think, because you're not going to eat the Rhine, you shouldn't have to wash it, but you're absolutely right. That when you take a knife and you cut it from the outside in what you're doing is drawing all that external bacteria into the flesh that you then

Vanessa: 7:27

yeah. I also want to talk about botulism.

Anna: 7:32

yeah.

Vanessa: 7:33

So I told Emily before we recorded this, I was like, I just feel like we need to talk about botulism. So I'll let you explain what bachelorism is for listeners that maybe aren't as familiar, but this is something that I feel like people are a little cavalier about, like with canning and stuff like that. I remember like my mom Cannes. And would always be like, oh yeah, you do this. So you don't get bachelors, like just a little like side note. So you don't get, bachelorism like this little step., so can you talk to us about botulism and, how people can avoid, especially in the canning process and just like, you know, looking at their cans even bought from the store and making sure that they're not contaminated.

Anna: 8:17

I'll start with that point actually, because I would assume most listeners are probably buying canned foods as opposed to getting them though. I do want to get to that. I just remember this being harped on us during our food safety class was. You should never buy cans that are dented , or if they have like a slight cracking them, I would hope if something looked, if it visibly appeared open, you wouldn't buy it anyway. But even dense can be dangerous because they can expose you or they can give you botulism. So botulism is like, it's quite rare, but it's a very, very, uh, dangerous foodborne illness can be potentially deadly, even in a small dose. And it's really elusive. You can't see smell or taste it. So, you know, with mold, you can usually see it used. You're going to smell it. If something sour, you're going to taste it. But with botulinum toxin, you don't know that until you've already ingested it. So botulism again comes through Clostridium botulinum and this thrives in certain conditions like low acid foods. So a lot of low acid foods are ones that you buy from the store, like canned vegetables. So those are things like canned green beans, canned corn, maybe canned potatoes, like you get for a potato salad, any kind of like canned meat or canned fish. These are all things you want to be aware of and make sure if you're buying them from the store, you're buying a, a reputable brand. It doesn't need to be the fanciest brand name or anything, but just making sure it doesn't look. Sketchy, um, because that's how, you know, they've probably sourced it well and prepared it well, and then just making sure there's no dents or scuffs in the aluminum, because that can really be an indicator that you could be exposed to botulinum toxin. So if you are canning at home, actually I'll, I'll say the symptoms first and then we'll get to help. Kidding.

Vanessa: 10:17

I was going to say the symptoms are important, cause it's a neurotoxin.

Anna: 10:21

Yes, that's such a good point. So botulism is, yeah, I keep saying botulism is a toxin. Botulism is,

Emily: 10:32

And also we have to talk about Botox at some point after

Anna: 10:35

well, my gosh. Yes. Um,

Vanessa: 10:38

God. Yeah. Wow. Work in Botox, indoor food safety episode, who knew?

Anna: 10:44

and people are doing like crazy.

Vanessa: 10:46

I know.

Anna: 10:48

Okay, botulism, the symptoms might include double vision or blurred vision, slurred speech, and feeling like your tongue is thick, or you might have a dry mouth and difficulty swallowing. So maybe like your whole face kind of feels like you've lost control of it. Maybe drooping, eyelids, and muscle weakness.

Vanessa: 11:06

I'm so scared. I'm like low key, high key. So scared of actually

Anna: 11:13

Oh, same, especially because you don't know until you ingest it that oh crap. Uh, I'm in big trouble.

Vanessa: 11:22

right.

Anna: 11:23

Um, But I want to just say, yeah, some of the foods that again are people do home canning of that are really susceptible or a lot of the same ones you'd buy from the store. So again like green beans, corn potatoes, maybe tomatoes, other ones are asparagus beets, maybe figs, if you, you know, grow in, can any fakes, um, Those are also all what are called low acid foods, which means they have a pH above 4.6. Seven is a neutral pH. So anything lower than that is considered acidic, but. Well, and typically acidic foods decrease your chance of foodborne illness because most foodborne pathogens can not survive in an acidic environment, but a pH of 4.6 or above, is more, easily inhabited by potential toxins or pathogens.

Vanessa: 12:21

It's a good environment for those guys.

Anna: 12:24

Well, and we all know bacteria love like warm, dark, moist environments. So think about if you're cooking something and then you're going to put it in a can and put it in your pantry. There are some steps you're going to want to take, just to make sure that you didn't, or if you did accidentally introduce some kind of bacteria or pathogen, that is not going to start to grow there and multiply. So the USDA does have a home canning guide, and I can send you the link to that. Do you want to put it in show notes? But they do have a specific guide to make sure that you're carefully following these guidelines. That includes I'm sure things like hand washing how to sanitize your containers, what temperature things should be cooked to before canning, et cetera. And the really important part about canning at home is that pressure canning is the only way to go. The USDA says pressure canning is the only recommended method for low acid foods, which again is all mint, all meats, efficiency, food, and then kind of those starchy vegetables. So like beets, corn potatoes, but then also tomatoes, green beans and asparagus, which are summer fruits or sorry, summer vegetables.

Emily: 13:41

Yeah, that's really interesting. I'm not huge into canning and don't have a lot of experience, but every time that I hear about botulism, I think about how, you know, you mentioned those symptoms and how some of them include issues of muscle or muscle paralysis. I'm not sure if everybody knows this, but after you've just been listening to all this, info about botulism, that it's part of the ingredients of Botox in order to paralyze muscles. So it smooth the appearance of wrinkles on the face.

Anna: 14:14

Yeah. How weird is it that this deadly talks in that we're so afraid of it? Eating at our canned corn is the same thing. Some people are injecting, you know, into their foreheads or their cheeks. Okay.

Emily: 14:26

Yeah. It's, it's crazy to think about,

Anna: 14:29

And if you want Botox, make sure you're going to a reputable, reputable source because that could get dangerous really quick.

Emily: 14:36

Yeah. I always hear about people who go to like group on Botox people. And I'm like, I don't know about that. I like, I would not just be looking for like a good deal when it comes to injecting this really poisonous substance in my thing.

Anna: 14:50

It's just one of those kinds of expenses you don't want to skimp on.

Emily: 14:54

Yeah.

Vanessa: 14:54

for sure. Non Groupon expense.

Emily: 14:59

Yeah. So we were talking a little bit about how summer is here and we're seeing a lot more things like picnics and food being brought to warm environments. Specifically with that, how can we protect ourselves from food borne illness at these events?

Anna: 15:17

That is a great question because the summer you think, you know, kind of care free, you just want to go hang out with your friends. You're not thinking about safety, particularly So my best tip, especially if you're somewhere where it gets really warm in the summer. And you may not too warm where you're not going to be sitting outside having said picnics. Um, but we're all in the Northern part of the state. So we understand like in the summer it gets what, like in the eighties, usually it's been hot here lately, but, it's good picnic weather, but it's not exactly room temperature. Right. You're going to say it's elevated from room temperature. So typically what is recommended by the CDC is food. Should, if food is regularly refrigerated or if it has already been cooked and it's at a warm temperature, it should stay outside of the danger zone, which is for a wider range. And for ease of remembering it's about 40 degrees Fahrenheit to 140 degrees Fahrenheit for a two hour period. So your food, if it's going to be. Out between the temperatures of 40 Fahrenheit and one 40 Fahrenheit for more than two hours, you should throw it out after. So like your refrigerator should always be below 40 degrees Fahrenheit. Your freezer should probably be at zero or below. And if you're cooking something and you're going to be holding it for a while, say for hosting a party, you're going to want that to be above one 40. If you're holding onto it for more than two hours. Well, if you're going to have a picnic again, you're going to be out here right? In like the dead center of that danger zone almost, you know, you could be sitting outside at about 80, 90 degrees. So I would say my first tip is always to bring a cooler, pack it with ice, pack it with ice packs that are reusable ones. So you don't get water all over everything. since it's. Gonna be hot out. You're probably eating cold food as it is. So it's not like you're going to be cooking a lasagna and then, you know, leaving it out for two hours before you enjoy it at the park. So if you're packing, say cold cuts of meat and cheese, or just sandwiches in general, any dips like chips and dip or fruit and vegetables, and it kind of beverages that are particularly perishable like dairy products, they should all be consumed within actually about an hour. Since you are elevated above room temperature. So if you know that you're going to be out and about, at least if you have a cooler with you, you can count on that to keep it, hopefully below that dangerous on a 40 degrees Fahrenheit, or again, at least significantly cooler than the temperature around you, which could be 80 or 90. I don't have any great tips for like reheating food at a picnic, just because that's. Probably not something you'd be doing. So that would be my tips for keeping food cold in the summer.

Emily: 18:07

Yeah, it's kind of like a running joke between myself and some friends. That I'm always the one that brings the cooler out with me. so that's definitely a dietician move. So are there any foods in particular that are most risky for giving us food borne illness?

Anna: 18:26

there absolutely are. They are called TC S foods. So TCS stands for time and temperature controlled for safety really should be TTCs. But. TCS foods. And these are things, foods that are particularly susceptible to foodborne pathogens. So these typically mean animal products, which could be any kind of dairy, eggs, meat, or fish shellfish, all of that. But it's not just these animal products kind of like we talked about earlier. some other big culprits of this are big potatoes. Cooked tofu or other kinds of soy. So maybe at a mommy, sprouts. I don't know if you've ever heard before that pregnant women should not eat sprouts. Just cause sprouts are very, very hard to clean, sliced fruit and tomatoes. Vegetables too, like just cut lettuce can be kind of iffy.

Emily: 19:25

You see romaine in the news pretty consistently for foodborne illness, for sure.

Anna: 19:30

Absolutely. yeah, that just reminded me, like, just this evening, I was deciding what to have for dinner. And I opened up my fridge and I was like, Hmm, I'll have a taco salad. I have all the ingredients. And I pulled out a bag of cut tomatoes and I went, Hmm. These have been in here for like a week. I probably shouldn't eat these. And I pulled out a bag of shredded lettuce. I go. Yep. This was from a family event. Last Sunday, I probably shouldn't eat this either. And it was smelling kind of ripe, um, sniff test. Sometimes you just want, don't want to take the risks, like with the tomatoes I want, you know, they smell fine, but I would rather, my apartment has composting, so I was like, I would rather just compost it then, uh, get myself sick.

Emily: 20:17

Yeah. Sometimes it's just really not worth that risk.

Anna: 20:20

Yeah. So the TCS foods are the ones that I was just kind of saying, you want to make sure they stay out of that danger zone, particularly. So things like, uh, bread say packaged bread from the store. You might see, you know, after a while it does get moldy, but it's not a TCS food. You will, 99% of the time see or smell or taste the mold in that product before it makes you sick. So these TCS foods, again, can be kind of sneaky and they go bad more quickly usually because of their water activity or just the way they inherently are. So water activity basically just tells you how much water is in that, how much free water is in that project product. And as we kind of talked about before bacteria and pathogens, all these things love moist environments. They thrive in water. So something has a lower water activity. It's going to be less susceptible to those pathogens surviving and it passing on an illness to you. Yeah.

Emily: 21:25

Also to kind of backing up, you mentioned animal products. I know so many begins, being vegan myself as well. A lot of people are under the impression that because it's a vegan alternative that they aren't. As prone to foodborne illness, like, you know, that almond milk is less prone to food-borne illness than dairy milk, something like that. Um, can you shed any light on that for us?

Anna: 21:56

a little bit. Yeah. That's thanks for bringing that up. That is a good point. You'll notice if you ever buy, just speaking of, you know, animal alternatives, if you buy a beyond burger or an impossible burger from the store, they're actually going to recommend that you cook it to the same temperature as you would cooking beef Patty, and having worked in food industry now, even things like a protein powder. So I worked for a pea protein company, has to go to a certain degree of processing because even though it is a plant product, not animal base, it's still susceptible to those foodborne pathogens. So just because you follow a vegan diet doesn't mean that you are immune to, contracting a foodborne illness, you may have lower odds based on the foods that you eat. Like, you know, you're not going to be eating again for sake of a better example, raw cookie dough with eggs in it, or under cooked chicken. And both of those things can. Give you some Manila, as we know. Um, but you know, you may be just as susceptible to eating something with raw flour because raw flour is also something that can give you some Manila. If it's not pasteurized or, any kind of unpasteurized product.

Emily: 23:08

it's kind of funny that you mentioned that one because there was a. Brand of vegan cookie dough and we would always eat it raw and we're like, oh, well, there's no eggs in it. So it's totally fine. The seminar risk is gone when that's not really true since they've got the flour, but they have since started actually cooking the flour beforehand and heating it so that, um, the risk is now lower.

Anna: 23:30

Yeah, that's a really good point. I have seen that now, too. I think toll house even came out with, you know, they're little cookies that you just break off into squares and pop. Then I think they actually came out with one that is made with pasteurized eggs or egg free and with pasteurized flour. So that cause they were like, we know people are already eating this. We might as well make it say.

Emily: 23:52

yeah, seriously, no one can resist the raw cookie dough.

Anna: 23:57

For those who are not begin. But those who consume dairy, I think there's a big push in the wellness industry for raw milk. You know, there are claims that oh, raw milk has more vitamins and minerals, or it has more omega threes or, has more. I dunno, antioxidants, all of these things, but study after study has shown that the risk of contracting two important illness from unpasteurized milk is far greater than any benefit you would get from consuming raw milk. And so that's just something I wanted to put out to the world. Like in some states, raw milk is illegal. I think in Minnesota, you know, you can kind of get it from your neighbor. Who's a farmer. If they. You, I want to sell it to you, but it's not something that is able to be commercially sold even at farmer's markets

Emily: 24:51

it's actually, I remember very vividly from class, our beloved food professor talked a lot about raw milk and oysters. That's like two facts that I definitely left food safety class with, about how there's a lot of risks with both of those items.

Anna: 25:07

I'll say one more thing on pasteurized milk, um, is, so you were just talking about your college professor and our same food science professor had us do a lab where we did coliform plate counts on milk. So everyone had to play one of skim milk or, you know, one pasteurized milk as a control versus raw milk. And then we let them sit and incubate for a few days and pulled them out. And then you had to count, you know, how many. Bacteria had grown on the plate. The lab just stunk. Cause it smelled like mold,

Emily: 25:41

Oh my God.

Anna: 25:42

growth on that raw milk plate. It was just like furry

Emily: 25:48

Oh my God. Oh,

Anna: 25:50

so many bacteria there. And I know like obviously we know gut health is really important and you want the good bacteria. These are not the good bacteria. These are the blood ones that will hurt you.

Emily: 26:04

Totally. Oh, that is so nasty, but they're eliminating, I think, on the subject. moving on a question that I get so often is about expiration dates. So can you tell us a little bit about what the expiration date on a product means?

Anna: 26:20

What's tricky about expiration dates is that there's a few of them, a few different types, I should say. So the first one you'll see most often probably is the best by date. So you'll see best by June 1st. And what that means is the product is going to taste the freshest and highest quality on or before June 1st past that date, they're not guaranteeing any freshness, but they're not giving you a solid date for when that product is spoiled. So it's a little bit goofy and that's so actually all expiration dates except for on infant formula are not regulated. So a lot of times these are tested for, um, by standards based on the category of product. So say like a slice bread, um, industry standard might be, oh, slice bread is good for three months. I'm making up a number there versus canceled is generally good for two years. But that is best by dates. They are just a quality indicator. Then you have the sell by date, and this is something for the grocer or the retailer. It helps them sort their inventory and it just helps turn product over. So it's to make sure that when consumers come to the store and they buy something that says sell by June 1st and they eat it on. June 5th, it's still probably going to be quality enough. They're not going to go. Oh, um, I should have eaten it by June 1st because that was the highest quality date. So that number varies again, depending on the category of food. there's not really an industry standard for someone had told me once. Oh, sell by date is always a week before the expiration date. And that is not the truth, but I'm honestly not totally sure what is accurate.

Emily: 28:11

Yeah. So those two dates are more for accessibility of food and have less to do with food safety. I think it's a really common misconception that those dates have to do with, have something to do with the food safety of a product. And I know so many people who just toss every piece of food out that has a past data on it. And without even, you know, attempting to discern for themselves, if the food is still good or not. So I think that's really good information to share.

Anna: 28:41

And that's the point I wanted to get to as well. I was trying to remember it. So the last one is the used by date, and that is the last possible date that they can guarantee freshness. So, whereas the best buy is going to be, oh, it's going to be the very best on this date. Um, The use by is like, it's not a safety date, but it's still kind of past this point. We can't guarantee it's still gonna taste good. Or if it's crackers that they're going to be crispy and not steal.

Emily: 29:09

Basically those dates are kind of just a little kind of trigger to people, to look at the food and discern for themselves, whether it's okay to eat.

Anna: 29:20

exactly. And actually what I wanted to mention is. There is an app that you can use called food keeper. And it is put out by the food safety inspection service, which is part of the USDA and the food safety inspection service. They go to, agricultural processing plants and make sure that all protocols are being followed for food safety, but they also have this app where you can go on and say, Uh, what category of food you're looking at, say it is deli and prepared foods, and it will tell you what is the safe way to prepare it once it's prepared? How long is it still good in your fridge? So if I click on cup fruit, it says for freshness and quality, this item should be consumed within if refrigerated four days. Um,

Emily: 30:18

You kind of answered my next question because I was going to, we'd love to leave listeners with some kind of practical tip going forward so they can implement this information in their lives. And this app sounds like a really cool, awesome way to learn more about food safety.

Anna: 30:35

Absolutely. Especially if you, are in a pinch, say you're cooking a recipe and you're like, oh, I don't want to pull up my computer and look up. What's the minimum internal temperature that I should be cooking beef to. You can just quick hop on this app. It looks like, and just, it will show you the best practices. So another mend is, going on the USDA or the CDC website and printing out the minimum internal temps. And that basically tells you, if you're cooking a food, what temperature should it reach to kill off? Any kind of pathogens. So the foods that are going to have to be cooked to the highest temperature are always poultry. I'm going to back up here and really quick talk about ServSafe, stocking your fridge. So one thing I want to recommend to listeners is to go on the CDC or the USDA or the FDA website, and look for the order of how you should stock your fridge. So there is actually a correct way to stock your fridge for food safety. And that is you ready to eat foods and beverages at the top. So that could be like pastries or yogurt. Any kind of beverage than the shelf below that should be washed fruits and vegetables. So always make sure you wash them before you put them in there. Because if you put in again ahead of romaine lettuce and it happens to have some salmonella on it and that drip that can drip down to shelves below and contaminate the other food. But the rule of thumb is the further down in the fridge. You go, the higher temperature that food cooks too. And the reason for that is just by gravity. Things are going to drip down from the higher shelves and whatever food is on the bottom is going to take up, you know, all of those bacteria or pathogens that have fallen down, but it's going to be cooked to the highest temperature so it can kill off all of those things. So you've got like your ready to eat foods, your fruits and vegetables. Then you have like your eggs and seafood where those have to be cooked too. It's like, 1 45, but if salmonella drips off the egg carton and goes below to the, um, this is like whole cuts of beef shelf, you know, that the beef is going to have to be cooked at a higher temperature than eggs. So it's going to kill off whatever bacteria came from, the eggs. And then below that, it goes down to ground beef. And then below that is, that's where you're going to find your poultry. So chicken and ground chicken or Turkey. And the reason for that is just so you make sure, like if you had a raw chicken sitting at the top of your fridge and it's juicy and it leaks a little bit of something onto your, you know, your head of romaine lettuce underneath it, and then you rip up that lettuce and you eat it in a salad, you're, you're eating raw chicken juice, and that is not something you want to do.

Vanessa: 33:36

Yeah, definitely not. I think that's a really good point. Like a lot of times people want to make their fridges look really pretty in a certain way. And it's a good guideline to know. If you do want to make your fridge pretty, that's great, but maybe start with making it safe first. So thank you so much, Anna, for telling us all about food safety today. If people are interested in finding you, where can they find you online?

Anna: 34:04

You can find me on Instagram at good vibes, better food. And I've got some other stuff in the works right now, but that is predominantly where you'll find me I'm most active on Instagram. So feel free to shoot me a DM. I do put up science Sunday posts about every week on different food science topics. So, um, yeah, this has kind of inspired me. I'm like, I should really do a food safety post. I haven't done one in awhile.

Vanessa: 34:30

Cool.

Anna: 34:31

think it's a good one for the summer, especially for getting close to 4th of July. People are again doing picnics and grill outs and all that kind of good stuff. So reminding people, it may look dorky, but don't forget to bring your meat thermometer and temp your hot dogs or temp your Rob burgers.

Vanessa: 34:50

Those are some good tips. It's okay. To be the nerd at the party. Thanks so much, Anna, and check out. Good vibes. Better food.

Anna: 35:00

Thank you both for having me, Emily and Vanessa. It's been such a pleasure.